6 ms·

I agree, there's just too many variables here. The drug itself also changed over the years with current breeds having way more active ingredients than the ones

by qayxc 5y ago

I agree, there's just too many variables here. The drug itself also changed over the years with current breeds having way more active ingredients than the ones used decades ago.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
samatman 5y ago
This part is easy to overstate. It's mostly true for the United States, although even back in the day there were strains (Maui was famous for this) which had nice crystals and were grown without males around to spoil the product. In Europe, hashish was the normal form of cannabis, and it's hard to make hash more potent than it already is. It varies in quality and strength like any natural product, but over a range that is higher than a flower can achieve, pretty much by definition. Hard-core concentrates and pure THC products are new, sure, but hashish gets you most of the way there.
- bjourne 5y ago
  According to studies, cannabis potency has indeed increasedi n Europe in the last few decades. See An overview of cannabis potency in Europe (https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/insights/cannabis-potency_en https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/insights/cannabis-...) and Increasing potency and price of cannabis in Europe, 2006–16 (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.14525 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.14525). From the abstract of the latter study: "Resin potency increased from a mean [95% confidence interval (CI)] of 8.14% THC (6.89, 9.49) in 2006 to 17.22 (15.23, 19.25) in 2016. Resin price increased from 8.21 euros/g (7.54, 8.97) to 12.27 (10.62, 14.16). Resin increased in value, from 11.00 mg THC per euro (8.60, 13.62) to 16.39 (13.68, 19.05). Quadratic time trends for resin potency and value indicated minimal change from 2006 to 2011, followed by marked increases from 2011 to 2016. Herbal cannabis potency increased from 5.00% THC (3.91, 6.23) to 10.22 (9.01, 11.47). Herbal price increased from 7.36 euros/g (6.22, 8.53) to 12.22 (10.59, 14.03). The value of herbal cannabis did not change from 12.65 mg of THC per euro (10.18, 15.34) to 12.72 (10.73, 14.73). All price trends persisted after adjusting for inflation. Conclusions European cannabis resin and herbal cannabis increased in potency and price from 2006 to 2016. Cannabis resin (but not herbal cannabis) increased in the quantity of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol per euro spent. Marked increases in resin potency and value from 2011 to 2016 are consistent with the emergence of new resin production techniques in European and neighbouring drug markets." Certainly, the potency is much higher than it was in the 1960's and 1970's.
  - asdff 5y ago
    Anecdotally, I've heard in the 60s and 70s generally people would just smoke a lot more weed in a single sitting than today. Several joints to a person of harsh brick weed vs. half of one with decent modern weed, for example.
    - subpixel 5y ago
      Anecdotally, half a joint of weed purchased from a legal, recreational shop is enough to get a dozen people stoned into the ground, unless they are regular users of the stuff.
      - BizarroLand 5y ago
        I moved to a recreational state and I tried a single puff. I was almost instantly high. Prior to this I had not used marijuana since I was a stupid teenager doing stupid stuff, so it had been over a decade since the last time. When it was available back then it was always some low quality dirt weed that you could smoke for days and still function on. With the legal recreational stuff, I was so blasted out of my mind that I couldn't hold a conversation. I had a mild panic attack because of slow playing music, and was high for the rest of the night. It was not fun, it was scary. Maybe my tolerance has decreased, sure, but the strength differences in modern recreational weed are so severe that they probably should not be considered to be the same drug any longer. If what was available to me as a teenager was like beer, the new stuff starts at vodka and goes way past Everclear.
    - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
      Yes. Typically when I was young, you kept smoking until you reached the desired level of intoxication then stopped. Do people do it differently now?
      - jbuhbjlnjbn 5y ago
        Exactly. The narrative of the "stronger, more dangerous(!) weed" falls short because consumers have always, and will always, micro-dose. That's just the human way to do it. You don't drink 1l of water when you are thirsty, you drink until the body tells you it is enough. You don't eat until the food is empty (ok well, sometimes we do..), you eat until you are full. I find it disappointing the same'ol propaganda reappear still today for MJ...now all left to do is to find out who sponsored the study this time and dictated the outcome...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- steego 5y ago
  I don’t think it’s overstating it. You explain it well enough yourself. The was a wide gap of difference hash in Europe in the 90’s vs your average weed in the US. All too often the stuff in the US would barely get you high whereas a few tokes of hash would be pretty intense. Sure, you always had special strains, but they were the exception. Now the strains and derived products is competitive with hash and you have to be careful.
- Weebs 5y ago
  I don't worry about the increased concentration of cannabinoids, but I do worry about the trend towards extremely high THC content while other cannabinoids like CBD are barely present.

by qayxc 5y ago

I agree, there's just too many variables here. The drug itself also changed over the years with current breeds having way more active ingredients than the ones used decades ago.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

samatman 5y ago

This part is easy to overstate. It's mostly true for the United States, although even back in the day there were strains (Maui was famous for this) which had nice crystals and were grown without males around to spoil the product. In Europe, hashish was the normal form of cannabis, and it's hard to make hash more potent than it already is. It varies in quality and strength like any natural product, but over a range that is higher than a flower can achieve, pretty much by definition. Hard-core concentrates and pure THC products are new, sure, but hashish gets you most of the way there.

bjourne 5y ago
According to studies, cannabis potency has indeed increasedi n Europe in the last few decades. See An overview of cannabis potency in Europe (https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/insights/cannabis-potency_en https://www.emcdda.europa.eu/publications/insights/cannabis-...) and Increasing potency and price of cannabis in Europe, 2006–16 (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.14525 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.14525). From the abstract of the latter study: "Resin potency increased from a mean [95% confidence interval (CI)] of 8.14% THC (6.89, 9.49) in 2006 to 17.22 (15.23, 19.25) in 2016. Resin price increased from 8.21 euros/g (7.54, 8.97) to 12.27 (10.62, 14.16). Resin increased in value, from 11.00 mg THC per euro (8.60, 13.62) to 16.39 (13.68, 19.05). Quadratic time trends for resin potency and value indicated minimal change from 2006 to 2011, followed by marked increases from 2011 to 2016. Herbal cannabis potency increased from 5.00% THC (3.91, 6.23) to 10.22 (9.01, 11.47). Herbal price increased from 7.36 euros/g (6.22, 8.53) to 12.22 (10.59, 14.03). The value of herbal cannabis did not change from 12.65 mg of THC per euro (10.18, 15.34) to 12.72 (10.73, 14.73). All price trends persisted after adjusting for inflation. Conclusions European cannabis resin and herbal cannabis increased in potency and price from 2006 to 2016. Cannabis resin (but not herbal cannabis) increased in the quantity of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol per euro spent. Marked increases in resin potency and value from 2011 to 2016 are consistent with the emergence of new resin production techniques in European and neighbouring drug markets." Certainly, the potency is much higher than it was in the 1960's and 1970's.
- asdff 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I've heard in the 60s and 70s generally people would just smoke a lot more weed in a single sitting than today. Several joints to a person of harsh brick weed vs. half of one with decent modern weed, for example.
  - subpixel 5y ago
    Anecdotally, half a joint of weed purchased from a legal, recreational shop is enough to get a dozen people stoned into the ground, unless they are regular users of the stuff.
    - BizarroLand 5y ago
      I moved to a recreational state and I tried a single puff. I was almost instantly high. Prior to this I had not used marijuana since I was a stupid teenager doing stupid stuff, so it had been over a decade since the last time. When it was available back then it was always some low quality dirt weed that you could smoke for days and still function on. With the legal recreational stuff, I was so blasted out of my mind that I couldn't hold a conversation. I had a mild panic attack because of slow playing music, and was high for the rest of the night. It was not fun, it was scary. Maybe my tolerance has decreased, sure, but the strength differences in modern recreational weed are so severe that they probably should not be considered to be the same drug any longer. If what was available to me as a teenager was like beer, the new stuff starts at vodka and goes way past Everclear.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    Yes. Typically when I was young, you kept smoking until you reached the desired level of intoxication then stopped. Do people do it differently now?
    - jbuhbjlnjbn 5y ago
      Exactly. The narrative of the "stronger, more dangerous(!) weed" falls short because consumers have always, and will always, micro-dose. That's just the human way to do it. You don't drink 1l of water when you are thirsty, you drink until the body tells you it is enough. You don't eat until the food is empty (ok well, sometimes we do..), you eat until you are full. I find it disappointing the same'ol propaganda reappear still today for MJ...now all left to do is to find out who sponsored the study this time and dictated the outcome...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
steego 5y ago
I don’t think it’s overstating it. You explain it well enough yourself. The was a wide gap of difference hash in Europe in the 90’s vs your average weed in the US. All too often the stuff in the US would barely get you high whereas a few tokes of hash would be pretty intense. Sure, you always had special strains, but they were the exception. Now the strains and derived products is competitive with hash and you have to be careful.
Weebs 5y ago
I don't worry about the increased concentration of cannabinoids, but I do worry about the trend towards extremely high THC content while other cannabinoids like CBD are barely present.