2 ms·

Shouldn’t you and your fellow voters being holding your government accountable for what it is doing with these tools rather than getting angry with vendors for

Shouldn’t you and your fellow voters being holding your government accountable for what it is doing with these tools rather than getting angry with vendors for selling things to your democratically elected government?

srean 5y ago
That was a rather judgmental, presumptuous and a personal accusation, but why should we be doing only one and not the other, when like minded folks can and in my mind should do both. Why do you feel the need to defend a company that is in breach of internationally accepted norms of legal behavior with such dual use weapon systems. Anything personal ?
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  Even if they were straight out weapons and not dual use technology why would I object to an Israeli company selling it to India and EU governments? These nations are allies of my own (USA). I would be upset if it sold them to North Korea or Iran.
  - srean 5y ago
    The upsetting bit is the part where they are not living up to the expected obligation that is now the international norm as spelled out in Wassenaar arrangement -- for this category of weapons, its also the producers obligation to monitor usage and see to it that compliance with national and international laws are met. Apart from that, I wouldnt call it a redeeming quality to ally with governments that spy on its own citizens to hold on to power. Apart from that, I don't think Iran does anything wrong. Any other country in the same position would very likely be doing the same things for securing their own future. That they aren't in love with a nation that sabotaged their emerging organic democracy, shot down domestic airliner without any apologies forthcoming, is quite understandable. (I understand that this is off topic) In the same spirit that you told me what I should and should not be doing, may I raise the same to you -- re-examine the moral ground for choosing the governments you ally with. I believe Saudia Arabia is one such, true champions of democracy I suppose, perhaps North Korea too going by your ex-president.

srean 5y ago

That was a rather judgmental, presumptuous and a personal accusation, but why should we be doing only one and not the other, when like minded folks can and in my mind should do both. Why do you feel the need to defend a company that is in breach of internationally accepted norms of legal behavior with such dual use weapon systems. Anything personal ?

bradleyjg 5y ago
Even if they were straight out weapons and not dual use technology why would I object to an Israeli company selling it to India and EU governments? These nations are allies of my own (USA). I would be upset if it sold them to North Korea or Iran.
- srean 5y ago
  The upsetting bit is the part where they are not living up to the expected obligation that is now the international norm as spelled out in Wassenaar arrangement -- for this category of weapons, its also the producers obligation to monitor usage and see to it that compliance with national and international laws are met. Apart from that, I wouldnt call it a redeeming quality to ally with governments that spy on its own citizens to hold on to power. Apart from that, I don't think Iran does anything wrong. Any other country in the same position would very likely be doing the same things for securing their own future. That they aren't in love with a nation that sabotaged their emerging organic democracy, shot down domestic airliner without any apologies forthcoming, is quite understandable. (I understand that this is off topic) In the same spirit that you told me what I should and should not be doing, may I raise the same to you -- re-examine the moral ground for choosing the governments you ally with. I believe Saudia Arabia is one such, true champions of democracy I suppose, perhaps North Korea too going by your ex-president.