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Artists, shrug off that imposter syndrome – the tech world needs you

131 points by dfeusse 5y ago

antiterra 5y ago
This article feels like a bit of a mess. It doesn’t really back up either of its two statements. Imposter syndrome generally requires that you are/were in the role that makes you feel like an imposter waiting to be found out. There’s an interesting tie between UI/design and a color principle. There’s recognition that an artist may find this gratifying and relevant. But, it’s a limited example not necessarily relevant to all visual artists. As a specific example, these guidelines could easily rolled into UI best practices and require no further input from color experts or artists. What I was reminded of, was interfaces designed for visual interest with little concern for design principles: Winamp skins, Enlightenment window manager themes and Kai’s Power Tools (https://www.mprove.de/script/99/kai/2Software.html https://www.mprove.de/script/99/kai/2Software.html)
- eropple 5y ago
  > Imposter syndrome generally requires that you are/were in the role that makes you feel like an imposter waiting to be found out. Not a big fan of the article either, but this doesn't strike me as accurate from my own experience. Impostor syndrome is more often, in my neck of the woods, used to refer to general lack of self-confidence. It can prevent you from applying to a job, too.
  - minxomat 5y ago
    That's an incorrect use. Imposter syndrome is called _imposter_ syndrome for a reason.
    - jedimastert 5y ago
      Imposter syndrome can keep you from advancing your career because you think you shouldn't have a career in the first place and if you try to move up you'll finally be found out.
      - BigBubbleButt 5y ago
        That just sounds like a lack of confidence. If you aren't an imposter, why would you call it imposter syndrome?
        hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
        >If you aren't an imposter, why would you call it imposter syndrome? Couldn't you say this about the names of various psychological syndromes? "If you aren't Alice in Wonderland, why would you call it Alice in Wonderland syndrome?" It's referring to the person's subjective experience, from their (perhaps warped) point of view.
        BigBubbleButt 5y ago
        You can call it whatever you want, but if the description doesn't fit I think it's fair to say it's at best a poor label. And it will always lead to confusion when just trying to communicate something. Why not just call a spade a spade?
        hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
        It's a psychological condition afflicting someone, not that they're actually an imposter. Imagine a lawyer who is terrified to go to work every day. She went to a good law school, got good grades, passed the bar exam, is well-respected in her field, etc. But she is terrified that her colleagues will, one of these days, find out that she's not even truly a lawyer at all -- she's just someone who managed to jump through enough hoops to convince people that she's a real lawyer. Once the people around her learn who she really is, hoo boy... she's going to lose her law license and her reputation and her clients and her house... she lives in fear of being "found out" every single day and it's beginning to affect both her career and her health. Is this lawyer an imposter? No, she's truly the lawyer everyone thinks she is, and it would be inaccurate to call her an imposter. But she is suffering from imposter syndrome.
        5y ago
    - coldtea 5y ago
      Language is based on use. Popular use is never incorrect. Dictionaries don't dictate language, they try to follow it.
      - sfotm 5y ago
        I hear this argument pretty frequently, but it comes off as more of an excuse. Most people aren't thumping the dictionary like a fundamentalist might a Bible, they're just pointing out that they have a different understanding of the word than another person does. Language is useful when everyone's on the same page. And especially regarding words drifting toward hyperbole, exaggeration, and sometimes simple misuse, sometimes it makes sense to resist the change. Compare this to cultural drift as a whole - sometimes, it drifts away for the worse and people calling it out as such aren't necessarily being obtuse just for the fun of it. Sincerely, a person that refuses to let to of the whole "literally" thing. I'm great at parties.
        mnowicki 5y ago
        regardless of whether it's technically correct(or who even gets to decide that) - the point of using language is to communicate, if you are communicating what you want then you're accomplishing your goal. Sometimes you might want to speak more formally or 'proper' - but that's just another example of communicating effectively, by using word choice to convey the right level of formality. Or to be perceived a certain way. Of course it's fine people are pointing out that they use the word a different way. Just saying I think the author used a clear word choice to effectively communicate what he meant to the largest number of people - even the people who are pointing out that he used the word wrong know what he was trying to communicate(otherwise they wouldn't realize he was using it 'incorrectly').
        coldtea 5y ago
        >Sincerely, a person that refuses to let to of the whole "literally" thing. I'm great at parties. Literally has been used to also (or mainly) mean "figurativelly" for centuries, including in major authors, it's not some new phenomenon from some unsophisticated masses... It's just a sound, it's not attached to some inherent meaning that must stand still till the end of time. Not to mention etymology (it originating from the word literal) != meaning. In fact, literal itself (and literally) have changed meaning twice in the past, originally they were used to talk about things related to words not to mean "in actuality" (which is also where "literature" comes from: littera from which literature and literal comes from meant: "letters"). So, it's people who don't know the proper history and use of literally that are annoyed by its used as "figuratively". Probably they also don't know that literally wasn't about "in reality" to begin with, or that this is just one of many contronyms, words that mean both one thing and the opposite (e.g. "dust" - you "dust" to clean a house, and you also "dust" to sprinkle some powder on something, or "clip" which means both to attach and dettach, "sanction" - to approve or to put punitive measures on, etc.).
- Zachsa999 5y ago
  Good thought. Don't forget that op is an artist not a linguist.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Imposter syndrome generally requires that you are/were in the role that makes you feel like an imposter waiting to be found out. Actually, it requires that you perceive other people to perceive that you have abilities, etc., exceeding what you perceive yourself to have. Role is tangential, though having a role that (you perceive) creates an expectation of particular abilities might contribute to you perceiving others to be perceiving you to have the abilities. But, relative to the immediate context, it is correct that not feeling qualified for a role you don't have and that you don't think you are or would be seen as qualified for by others for is just (justified or not) low (relative to an arbitrary target) self-image, not impostor syndrome.
  - dnissley 5y ago
    I've heard this described as "self gatekeeping".
itronitron 5y ago
UI design is inherently a waste of time for artists.
- whateveracct 5y ago
  Tech is, quite frankly, a waste of time for everyone. That's why they pay you so much to turn your life into gigantic market caps.
  - saiojd 5y ago
    Why are you on a tech site if you think tech is a waste of time?
    - whateveracct 5y ago
      I like technology but dislike tech. Plenty of good technical discussions on here. I'm in tech because they pay me big bucks to basically do nothing, and as I rise the ranks, I can do even less and get paid more. Can't pass on a gravy train.
      - saiojd 5y ago
        Just curious, do you mean that you dislike what the big corpos happen to be doing, or do you mean "I dislike it all, I just happen to like learning the stuff + it pays". (I'm not sure I see the difference between "technology" and "tech")
  - pb7 5y ago
    Tech pays a lot because there's a lot of money in tech. Most people in tech are underpaid relative to the value generated, in part because a lot of people enjoy working in tech.
    - whateveracct 5y ago
      Most tech jobs pretty much demand your entire life's focus. Partially due to the mental demands, partially due to office culture. Luckily with remote work, it's becoming easier to do 10-20hrs for the same pay 40-60 (accounting for commute and other incidental costs) used to get. So I can finally use my technical skills to benefit myself way more than what I'm selling to my employer for the first time in many years. In a way, this transition to remote work is making it so I can clandestinely get a BigCo to finance my longterm career & personal software dreams ;)
gatkinso 5y ago
Does this person even know any actual artists? Many of them would rather die than work in tech.
- Ostrogodsky 5y ago
  Nothing more dangerous than an "artist", "innovating" in the front-end.
- bobthechef 5y ago
  > Many of them would rather die than work in tech. At least until they need to pay the bills.
  - Matticus_Rex 5y ago
    Apparently many of them would rather not pay the bills
    - quacked 5y ago
      I don't know why you're being downvoted, I know at least 15 people who got some kind of art degree, they pefer to work brutal late-night shifts at a pizza shop or deliver food/drive Uber than take a spreadsheet jockey temp job, even if it pays 3x as much.
      - Matticus_Rex 5y ago
        My experience is similar. I know a few who eventually have made the jump, especially once they saw someone close to them do it, but for the most part they've largely been unwilling to do anything that seems permanent/career-ish that isn't what they dreamed of. I get it and sympathize, to a point, but....
        quacked 5y ago
        The idea that one's career must bring personal and spiritual fulfillment is one of the most damaging bits of propaganda fed to young people, I think.
armchairhacker 5y ago
I think people underestimate how UI aesthetics actually improve user experience. I remember when I was younger it was a lot easier to be more productive and creative with Pages, Numbers, Keynote than their competitors (this was when they were still skeuomorphic). The pretty UI genuinely motivated and inspired me, to an extent that I actually noticed. I really believe it helped start projects easier and work on them longer. Still, you should never have flashiness sacrifice usability. Pages was a good example because Apple understood usability. I’m not arguing for excess animations, ugly contrasts, etc. In fact, plenty of minimalist design is pretty while also being usable. Google Docs/Slides/Sheets in the browser, for example, are actually well designed. Material design without the shadows would still have all the usability with less flare, but nobody would build their website off of that. I think a lot of graphic designers who make minimalist designs, strive to make them pretty without even realizing
- zinglersen 5y ago
  Another example of this is the investment app Robinhood. They make it so easy for beginners to start investing because they have removed all the cutter from their UI and UX - granted some would argue that it's too simple for the user's own good.
- spython 5y ago
  Material design is like the design of a typical hotel room. It aims to accommodate everyone. It aims to be a temporary home for everyone and a permanent home for no-one. Hardly anyone would actively choose to make such a clinical, impersonal, unopinionated environment their home. That's what happened with user interfaces when software ate the world – once the UI designers tried to reach everyone, be the place for everyone, the hotel room design took over. The call to bring artistic view into designing interfaces only makes sense if you are brave enough or lucky enough to allow your product to be opinionated, to not be for everyone. As a trained artist in the technology field, actively working on speculative HCI designs, I don't often see companies that are open to opinionated designs. Most expect the designer to produce decoration, whereas the actual strength of a good designer lies in creating a space, a choreography, an interaction that fits the needs of the customer exactly right. That solves the actual, human need in a way that is true to the medium. don't turn your project into a hotel room, I beg you!
aritmo 5y ago
The title is a disaster. It would only make sense if they are selling training services to artists to migrate to UI design, and they want to lower their self-esteem so that they actually pay them for the training. Oh.
- aritmo 5y ago
  And 38 upvotes in just an hour. Mmm.
  - dang 5y ago
    The upvotes are normal. Please follow the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - PhasmaFelis 5y ago
    Not everyone who disagrees with you is a shill.
honie 5y ago
I'm not sure what it is, but something about the colour palette used in the examples shown feels a bit off to my untrained eyes. Is there actually a job market for pure UI designers? I often see UI as only a small part of job description that involves other non-art-related technical skills. It feels like the market is already saturated with people who can do UI design and a lot more (or the other way around for that matter). I am glad that the author managed to find internship as a UI designer and I'm aware that the author plans "to extend into UX", but the emphasis on UI design as a career change for "traditional" artists sounds... dangerous. Edit: removed confusing parenthetical.
- zinglersen 5y ago
  There's definitely a market for UI designers (as well as visual designers). "UI designer" as a job title basically means you as a designer have clear area of responsibility; the user interface. You find these role in larger companies because when you reach a certain scale you need to build design systems, digital and/or print style guides, asset frameworks, micro animations, etc. Startups typically hire hybrid designers with a mix of UI and UX skills. In Scandinavia these roles are often called "UI/UX designers" and in US, where the design culture is more mature, it's sometimes called a "Product designer" and has a different set of responsibilities. So the short answer is 'yes' but it depends on a lot of things like the size, maturity, and design org. within the company.
azinman2 5y ago
So she lower the contrast and then gave a component a shadow where as none of the others have any 3D effect and are completely flat? It feels widely inconsistent to me and the message doesn’t hit right with me. There are people who train in graphic design that eventually become UI/YX designers… which isn’t to say an artist couldn’t go that route, but this doesn’t seem like a particularly compelling example.
- Xevi 5y ago
  As a frontend dev I would probably stick to the original design if presented with the new one. The new one is inconsistent and looks slightly outdated. Not saying that the original design is perfect though, or that the new one is crap. On top of that, it has some other weird stuff going on, which might be beside the point, but it still caught my attention. For example, why is every input field now a dropdown? Are you really going to select colors and pixels in a dropdown? It just makes it feel sloppy.
runawaybottle 5y ago
The implications of the article suggest that there is a notion of ‘real art’. Our graphic designers are already real artists, so are our programmers. So the guys and girls that know how to physically paint are real artists, and we need them show us the way? I think not.
egypturnash 5y ago
This article title is kind of hilarious given that yesterday I learnt that Twitter is currently de-emphasizing the display of tweets with links to Patreon in them, thus making it harder for artists to grow their financial support. The tech world will happily use our work to keep people scrolling their endless ad spigots, but the minute we ask people to leave and give some money to us? Nothing. So come join the tech world, artists! Use your hard-won mastery of color, design, and form to help make a nice frame for some Corporate Memphis clip-art we got off a stock site! It'll be great.
- pkdpic_y9k 5y ago
  Do you have a link to an article on that? Would love to check it out.
  - egypturnash 5y ago
    Just a twitter link: https://twitter.com/ThornwolfArt/status/1417952808813301764 https://twitter.com/ThornwolfArt/status/1417952808813301764
cryptica 5y ago
Impostor syndrome is a prerequisite for getting a job these days. Companies only want to hire people who feel like frauds and investors like to invest in people who feel like fraud. Since companies can't actually advertise that they're looking to hire fraudsters, they have to settle for the next closest thing: People who feel like frauds.
- wyre 5y ago
  Source?
  - cryptica 5y ago
    Your own eyes and your brain.
backtoyoujim 5y ago
This article reminds me of people that say the eagles could have dropped the ring into Mordor. The corporate world has spent the better part of a century convincing the populace that when one doesn't work in cubes, "people" like artists, then they aren't really doing their share. And now, suddenly, the corporate state wants those people to prioritize their value as resources to the corporatocracy. Much like the eagles from LOTR, some people don't have any interest of your company, or IPO, or your disruption no matter how "valuable" they could be to some corporate bottom line.
- pdog 5y ago
  My doctoral thesis was on precisely the question of what role the Great Eagles could have played before and during the War of the Ring to deliver the One Ring to Mordor. It's not simple enough to say they were great beings who would have been corrupted by the ring, or they were not interested in the power of the ring, or even that the story would have ended in ten minutes and therefore they couldn't do it. There is a lot of research and discussion[1][2][3][4][5][6] of this open question. [1]: http://www.sean-crist.com/personal/pages/eagles/index.html http://www.sean-crist.com/personal/pages/eagles/index.html [2]: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Eagles https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Eagles [3]: https://www.polygon.com/lord-of-the-rings/22432394/eagles-lotr-plot-hole-mordor https://www.polygon.com/lord-of-the-rings/22432394/eagles-lo... [4]: https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/6nysuy/lotr_classic_question_solved_why_did_the_eagles/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/6nysuy/lotr_cl... [5]: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/2333/why-didnt-gandalf-or-frodo-fly-to-mount-doom https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/2333/why-didnt-gan... [6]: https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the-Eagles-fly-the-Ringbearer-partway-to-Mordor-Wouldnt-that-have-shaved-some-time-off-the-journey https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the-Eagles-fly-the-Ringbeare...
- unamashana 5y ago
  Disclaimer: Not an artist myself but a friend of the writer, and a co-founder of MagicBell - the host of the blog. Aren't there a lot of artists (just like there are lots of actors) who have a day job to pay the bills? If that job happens to be in tech (and pay well) that should ideally be of interest to many people. Not to everyone but surely to some I assume. They won't be invested in the IPO or disruption but they could be interested in doing their job well and making a good living. I have a lot of friends (not all artists) who are super smart but work for low pay at restaurants and I for one sure wish they could work at tech and make more money. I know for a fact many of them would want to.
pkdpic_y9k 5y ago
As a practicing visual artist / art school hippie who recently got into working as a software engineer I got really excited when I saw this, noted problems aside. But I wasn't surprised to see it was limited to UI/UX. I'm having a really hard time finding other art school grads and visual artists working on the engineering side of tech and it's starting to make me feel a little crazy. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to find some other visual artists working as software engineers to connect with?
- yungbeto 5y ago
  Art school grad here - Though I'm not a professional software developer myself, I have a couple artist/SWE friends who are involved in the Algorave community along with a lot of other creative coders. While not a strictly visual medium it could be a nice jumping off point to look into! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorave
  - pkdpic_y9k 5y ago
    Hey thank you so much! Semi-related, I've been trying to get some resources together for a handful of artists / musicians trying to break into tech on this linked repo. If you or your artist/SWE friends have any suggestions on helpful resources I'm desperately trying to get more on there via pull requests or the discord linked in the repo! https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources
- motioncuty 5y ago
  Hey, lets link up. Does HN have dm's?
  - pkdpic_y9k 5y ago
    lol, if only? :^p I recently set up a little discord community and corresponding github repo for a couple of other artists trying to break into tech to share resources, connect etc. Hit me up on there or github for sure! https://discord.gg/3vdb6rk24D https://discord.gg/3vdb6rk24D | https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I personally would rather that all artists stay far, far away from UI design forever, for the simple reason that they will never allow me to customize anything. It's bad enough we're stuck with the current bespoke "light" and "dark" modes in UIs that were fully customizable in the fucking longlongago of the goddamned 90s. Not to mention their propensity for form over function. No thanks. Kindly fuck off.
- sergiomattei 5y ago
  Way to completely reduce an industry.
deleted 5y ago
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Dumblydorr 5y ago
As an amateur painter and professional coder, I must say art and design are key to even my statistical analysis. The issue is the human reader of your product. You want to make their experience easy and pleasant, even if it's reading numerical analyses. Thus, I take very boring looking data and turn it into something that's possible to engage with easily. That's composition, design, detail oriented execution, many crossovers between various creative fields.
- pm90 5y ago
  Absolutely agree with this. I love that most mainstream monitoring tools today aren’t just “graphs” but they keep in mind contrasting/complementing color codes to make it easy to read and spot changes that may be concerning. If I’m an engineer operating services I probably have to stare at dashboards and graphs a lot; making them pretty/easy to read makes my life just a little bit easier and I’m grateful for that.
- nicbou 5y ago
  As a technical writer, that also applies to how you write and structure information. I spend a lot of time refining the documentation I write, because I've been the victim of poor documentation. This goes hand in hand with a good design, good typography and quality code. The result is a website that answers your questions and makes you feel more confident about your goals.
baldanders 5y ago
Regarding imposter syndrome: While I know that imposter syndrome is a real phenomenon that people experience, I think that it's become some catch-all solution to the fact that many young people have not actually put in the practice to master their craft. The times in my life where I've felt "imposter syndrome", it would go away after I had put in the work to get better at whatever subject/hobby I was feeling like an imposter doing. This has led me to believe that the majority of people who are dealing with imposter syndrome are in fact just experiencing the perfectly normal discomfort of recognizing that they are not yet as competent in something as they would like to be. I think this may be a result of the postmodern emphasis on subjectivity that has pervaded American culture for the past decade and a half. If your art sucks, which of the following options is easier on your ego? Saying people "just don't get it" and that you're suffering from a psychological condition, or that you just need to practice more?
- jraby3 5y ago
  I actually think analysis paralysis is more relevant most of the time. It’s not thinking you’re not good enough - more that there are so many options it’s hard to figure out one to focus on. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment.
shadowlight 5y ago
I feel UI designers are all imposters pretending that their job is some kind of ultra high value skill set. The UI designer is an important job but to compare it to a still life painting? Laughable. Literally, that still life painting takes 1000x more skill to render than arranging text, pictures and geometric elements on a website. ANYONE can arrange these elements on a website in a pleasing way. It takes time and effort to consider the best way to arrange these elements but it doesn't take extraordinary talent to do this... anyone can do it. Mind you there are some programmers that are really inept at all forms of "art" but this post isn't direct at those people. On average arranging text in a pleasing way is a trivial exercise. Adding this "color" and "depth" theory on top of it (there's no real science theory here) is just pretentious. Yes these "theories" are sort of applicable but at the same time "what just looks good" also works just as well.
- nerdponx 5y ago
  This is unbelievably arrogant. Where is your UI portfolio? If UI design were easy, we wouldn't have garbage UIs all over the place.
  - shadowlight 5y ago
    Also unbelievably and unfortunately true. The arrogance of a statement has no bearing on truth. Keep your biases in check and examine the truth behind a statement rather then perceived arrogance. Look at https://www.google.com/ https://www.google.com/. It looks clean, and nice and well arranged. Does it look like a work of pure talent and skill and a work of incredible skill and artistry? No. No it does not. Sure google is probably paying some designer 200k to come up with that front page but seriously let's take a look at it from the perspective of reality. How much effort and talent is required to come up with that search page versus painting a still life painting? Let's face it: Not much talent, and not much effort either. You can take it a notch up further and talk about complicated interfaces like gmail or outlook. For that I have to say that there's a lot of TIME involved in thinking through the placement and color coding of the interfaces. But is there talent? No. Anybody can spend the time to think about that stuff. As for painting still life? Or the human figure from thin air? That's raw talent. Not many people can do that no matter how much time you give them. I also bet a good chunk of UI designers don't have the ability to even draw at that level. Have you seen the netflix show Love, death, robots? The artistry in that show is amazing. I respect the people who work on those episodes. That is an example of modern artistry displaying pure talent and raw skill. UI designers in comparison? Imposters, most of them, and I'm not referring to the syndrome. Also I'm not the one claiming I'm good at UI design. I'm calling out the imposters. Why don't you show me your portfolio and I'll give you my honest opinion on it. Good UI design is good UI but man you guys are not "artists" to the degree the people on that netflix show are actual artists.
screye 5y ago
Within the context of contemporary art, UI design and artists are at complete odds with each other. Afaik, contemporary art deliberately rejects art as a tool for expression of traditional aesthetics, utilitarian maximization or broad appeal to the untested eye. Commentary, metaphor and art as a reaction to other art is the norm. None of these trainings lend themselves well to UI Design which is fundamentally about aesthetics facilitating function. IMO, architects would make for great UI designers, as it is another profession that mandates a level of function from the art. They also tend to be quite comfortable with complex software work due to common architectural tools. (a couple of my friends did make the architecture -> UX design transition, and are quite happy) Software engineers are famously stubborn when it comes to their aesthetics. One may say they're sensitive to aesthetics. But IMO, it is more that they're willing to put in a lot of time to learn abstruse interaction patterns and will defend them to death, irrespective of their general purpose appeal or intuitiveness. Git and Vim are amazing examples. Nothing against the tools. But if they needed widespread adoption from the populace then they'd be dead in the water on day 1. (They are amazing despite their terrible UX, not because of it) I like to believe that I am quite sensitive to aesthetics and a well designed UI can elevate a mediocre tool to near unbeatable in their competition space. (The financial planning tool someone posted a few days ago on HN is a great example of UI/UX done right) _______ On another note: Being an artist is also about status and class. Tech is the Noveau-Riche of this half-century. It is the lowest status thing you can be. We see it all the time. Tech bros are the butt of every joke and their hobbies/culture/lifestyles are widely mocked. You never see the same level of disdain towards lawyers in DC or finance bros in NYC as you see for tech people in places like Seattle. It doesn't help that the demographic is generally male, traditionally unattractive, nerdy and socially awkward. (This is slowly changing, but not quickly enough. The appeal of tech to a certain demographic also isn't necessarily a bad thing. I will concede that very likely other professions have occupied this same chair in different eras) The only company that manages to look cool to artists is Apple, and they are very careful about hiding that they are a tech company first, rather preferring to highlight themselves as a fashion company. (The fictionalized steve jobs founding myth also helps a lot) _________ I would love to see more artists come into tech with a mindset of cooperation and good faith towards the community than disdain and disruption. Maybe we'll see truly great UI design.
the_cat_kittles 5y ago
art is often a political choice to prioritize something above money. so its entirely antithetical to lots of people to do what your suggesting. though there's always the urge to sell out to some degree. but this kinda shit comes off like a religious person telling you to join their religion. "tech" in its modern conception is more about money than anything, which often results in extremely lame stuff. you feel sorry for artists who are poor, but they might feel sorry for you because what you do is so lame.
antattack 5y ago
Artists I know don't want to be shacked by corporate structures rather than thinking that they are not smart/capable enough.
ben7799 5y ago
The work on reducing dark mode contrasts seems valid.. lots of dark mode is way too high contrast. It's trendy, so I try it, and pretty immediately can feel the contrast messing with my eyes. So it gets turned off. However I hate the ever increasing emphasis on design that doesn't even care about actual usability. It's all about the shapes and styling of elements and so much less on how all the components fit together, how the user moves through the application, etc.. I've been at this a while and used to be a UI guy, it feels like the balance of design:usability has shifted further towards design than at any other time since I've been using a computer. In places where there used to not be a "designer" flow and usability could end up being emphasized more than it is today. Today a designer sits there and restyles the widgets, in the past with no designer everyone else was happy to take the stock widgets and follow the design guidelines from MS or especially Apple. No thought on restyling widgets meant all the UI design time was on the usability. Thankfully the project I work on right now has a good balance. Prior to our current UI designer we had a design-first person and it was kind of a disaster, stuff was getting restyled while UI requests from customers to fix usability issues were left to wither and die.

131 points by dfeusse 5y ago

This article feels like a bit of a mess. It doesn’t really back up either of its two statements. Imposter syndrome generally requires that you are/were in the role that makes you feel like an imposter waiting to be found out. There’s an interesting tie between UI/design and a color principle. There’s recognition that an artist may find this gratifying and relevant. But, it’s a limited example not necessarily relevant to all visual artists. As a specific example, these guidelines could easily rolled into UI best practices and require no further input from color experts or artists. What I was reminded of, was interfaces designed for visual interest with little concern for design principles: Winamp skins, Enlightenment window manager themes and Kai’s Power Tools (https://www.mprove.de/script/99/kai/2Software.html https://www.mprove.de/script/99/kai/2Software.html)

eropple 5y ago
> Imposter syndrome generally requires that you are/were in the role that makes you feel like an imposter waiting to be found out. Not a big fan of the article either, but this doesn't strike me as accurate from my own experience. Impostor syndrome is more often, in my neck of the woods, used to refer to general lack of self-confidence. It can prevent you from applying to a job, too.
- minxomat 5y ago
  That's an incorrect use. Imposter syndrome is called _imposter_ syndrome for a reason.
  - jedimastert 5y ago
    Imposter syndrome can keep you from advancing your career because you think you shouldn't have a career in the first place and if you try to move up you'll finally be found out.
    - BigBubbleButt 5y ago
      That just sounds like a lack of confidence. If you aren't an imposter, why would you call it imposter syndrome?
      - hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
        >If you aren't an imposter, why would you call it imposter syndrome? Couldn't you say this about the names of various psychological syndromes? "If you aren't Alice in Wonderland, why would you call it Alice in Wonderland syndrome?" It's referring to the person's subjective experience, from their (perhaps warped) point of view.
        BigBubbleButt 5y ago
        You can call it whatever you want, but if the description doesn't fit I think it's fair to say it's at best a poor label. And it will always lead to confusion when just trying to communicate something. Why not just call a spade a spade?
        hoppyhoppy2 5y ago
        It's a psychological condition afflicting someone, not that they're actually an imposter. Imagine a lawyer who is terrified to go to work every day. She went to a good law school, got good grades, passed the bar exam, is well-respected in her field, etc. But she is terrified that her colleagues will, one of these days, find out that she's not even truly a lawyer at all -- she's just someone who managed to jump through enough hoops to convince people that she's a real lawyer. Once the people around her learn who she really is, hoo boy... she's going to lose her law license and her reputation and her clients and her house... she lives in fear of being "found out" every single day and it's beginning to affect both her career and her health. Is this lawyer an imposter? No, she's truly the lawyer everyone thinks she is, and it would be inaccurate to call her an imposter. But she is suffering from imposter syndrome.
        5y ago
  - coldtea 5y ago
    Language is based on use. Popular use is never incorrect. Dictionaries don't dictate language, they try to follow it.
    - sfotm 5y ago
      I hear this argument pretty frequently, but it comes off as more of an excuse. Most people aren't thumping the dictionary like a fundamentalist might a Bible, they're just pointing out that they have a different understanding of the word than another person does. Language is useful when everyone's on the same page. And especially regarding words drifting toward hyperbole, exaggeration, and sometimes simple misuse, sometimes it makes sense to resist the change. Compare this to cultural drift as a whole - sometimes, it drifts away for the worse and people calling it out as such aren't necessarily being obtuse just for the fun of it. Sincerely, a person that refuses to let to of the whole "literally" thing. I'm great at parties.
      - mnowicki 5y ago
        regardless of whether it's technically correct(or who even gets to decide that) - the point of using language is to communicate, if you are communicating what you want then you're accomplishing your goal. Sometimes you might want to speak more formally or 'proper' - but that's just another example of communicating effectively, by using word choice to convey the right level of formality. Or to be perceived a certain way. Of course it's fine people are pointing out that they use the word a different way. Just saying I think the author used a clear word choice to effectively communicate what he meant to the largest number of people - even the people who are pointing out that he used the word wrong know what he was trying to communicate(otherwise they wouldn't realize he was using it 'incorrectly').
      - coldtea 5y ago
        >Sincerely, a person that refuses to let to of the whole "literally" thing. I'm great at parties. Literally has been used to also (or mainly) mean "figurativelly" for centuries, including in major authors, it's not some new phenomenon from some unsophisticated masses... It's just a sound, it's not attached to some inherent meaning that must stand still till the end of time. Not to mention etymology (it originating from the word literal) != meaning. In fact, literal itself (and literally) have changed meaning twice in the past, originally they were used to talk about things related to words not to mean "in actuality" (which is also where "literature" comes from: littera from which literature and literal comes from meant: "letters"). So, it's people who don't know the proper history and use of literally that are annoyed by its used as "figuratively". Probably they also don't know that literally wasn't about "in reality" to begin with, or that this is just one of many contronyms, words that mean both one thing and the opposite (e.g. "dust" - you "dust" to clean a house, and you also "dust" to sprinkle some powder on something, or "clip" which means both to attach and dettach, "sanction" - to approve or to put punitive measures on, etc.).
Zachsa999 5y ago
Good thought. Don't forget that op is an artist not a linguist.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Imposter syndrome generally requires that you are/were in the role that makes you feel like an imposter waiting to be found out. Actually, it requires that you perceive other people to perceive that you have abilities, etc., exceeding what you perceive yourself to have. Role is tangential, though having a role that (you perceive) creates an expectation of particular abilities might contribute to you perceiving others to be perceiving you to have the abilities. But, relative to the immediate context, it is correct that not feeling qualified for a role you don't have and that you don't think you are or would be seen as qualified for by others for is just (justified or not) low (relative to an arbitrary target) self-image, not impostor syndrome.
- dnissley 5y ago
  I've heard this described as "self gatekeeping".

itronitron 5y ago

UI design is inherently a waste of time for artists.

whateveracct 5y ago
Tech is, quite frankly, a waste of time for everyone. That's why they pay you so much to turn your life into gigantic market caps.
- saiojd 5y ago
  Why are you on a tech site if you think tech is a waste of time?
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    I like technology but dislike tech. Plenty of good technical discussions on here. I'm in tech because they pay me big bucks to basically do nothing, and as I rise the ranks, I can do even less and get paid more. Can't pass on a gravy train.
    - saiojd 5y ago
      Just curious, do you mean that you dislike what the big corpos happen to be doing, or do you mean "I dislike it all, I just happen to like learning the stuff + it pays". (I'm not sure I see the difference between "technology" and "tech")
- pb7 5y ago
  Tech pays a lot because there's a lot of money in tech. Most people in tech are underpaid relative to the value generated, in part because a lot of people enjoy working in tech.
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    Most tech jobs pretty much demand your entire life's focus. Partially due to the mental demands, partially due to office culture. Luckily with remote work, it's becoming easier to do 10-20hrs for the same pay 40-60 (accounting for commute and other incidental costs) used to get. So I can finally use my technical skills to benefit myself way more than what I'm selling to my employer for the first time in many years. In a way, this transition to remote work is making it so I can clandestinely get a BigCo to finance my longterm career & personal software dreams ;)

gatkinso 5y ago

Does this person even know any actual artists? Many of them would rather die than work in tech.

Ostrogodsky 5y ago
Nothing more dangerous than an "artist", "innovating" in the front-end.
bobthechef 5y ago
> Many of them would rather die than work in tech. At least until they need to pay the bills.
- Matticus_Rex 5y ago
  Apparently many of them would rather not pay the bills
  - quacked 5y ago
    I don't know why you're being downvoted, I know at least 15 people who got some kind of art degree, they pefer to work brutal late-night shifts at a pizza shop or deliver food/drive Uber than take a spreadsheet jockey temp job, even if it pays 3x as much.
    - Matticus_Rex 5y ago
      My experience is similar. I know a few who eventually have made the jump, especially once they saw someone close to them do it, but for the most part they've largely been unwilling to do anything that seems permanent/career-ish that isn't what they dreamed of. I get it and sympathize, to a point, but....
      - quacked 5y ago
        The idea that one's career must bring personal and spiritual fulfillment is one of the most damaging bits of propaganda fed to young people, I think.

armchairhacker 5y ago

I think people underestimate how UI aesthetics actually improve user experience. I remember when I was younger it was a lot easier to be more productive and creative with Pages, Numbers, Keynote than their competitors (this was when they were still skeuomorphic). The pretty UI genuinely motivated and inspired me, to an extent that I actually noticed. I really believe it helped start projects easier and work on them longer. Still, you should never have flashiness sacrifice usability. Pages was a good example because Apple understood usability. I’m not arguing for excess animations, ugly contrasts, etc. In fact, plenty of minimalist design is pretty while also being usable. Google Docs/Slides/Sheets in the browser, for example, are actually well designed. Material design without the shadows would still have all the usability with less flare, but nobody would build their website off of that. I think a lot of graphic designers who make minimalist designs, strive to make them pretty without even realizing

zinglersen 5y ago
Another example of this is the investment app Robinhood. They make it so easy for beginners to start investing because they have removed all the cutter from their UI and UX - granted some would argue that it's too simple for the user's own good.
spython 5y ago
Material design is like the design of a typical hotel room. It aims to accommodate everyone. It aims to be a temporary home for everyone and a permanent home for no-one. Hardly anyone would actively choose to make such a clinical, impersonal, unopinionated environment their home. That's what happened with user interfaces when software ate the world – once the UI designers tried to reach everyone, be the place for everyone, the hotel room design took over. The call to bring artistic view into designing interfaces only makes sense if you are brave enough or lucky enough to allow your product to be opinionated, to not be for everyone. As a trained artist in the technology field, actively working on speculative HCI designs, I don't often see companies that are open to opinionated designs. Most expect the designer to produce decoration, whereas the actual strength of a good designer lies in creating a space, a choreography, an interaction that fits the needs of the customer exactly right. That solves the actual, human need in a way that is true to the medium. don't turn your project into a hotel room, I beg you!

aritmo 5y ago

The title is a disaster. It would only make sense if they are selling training services to artists to migrate to UI design, and they want to lower their self-esteem so that they actually pay them for the training. Oh.

aritmo 5y ago
And 38 upvotes in just an hour. Mmm.
- dang 5y ago
  The upvotes are normal. Please follow the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- PhasmaFelis 5y ago
  Not everyone who disagrees with you is a shill.

honie 5y ago

I'm not sure what it is, but something about the colour palette used in the examples shown feels a bit off to my untrained eyes. Is there actually a job market for pure UI designers? I often see UI as only a small part of job description that involves other non-art-related technical skills. It feels like the market is already saturated with people who can do UI design and a lot more (or the other way around for that matter). I am glad that the author managed to find internship as a UI designer and I'm aware that the author plans "to extend into UX", but the emphasis on UI design as a career change for "traditional" artists sounds... dangerous. Edit: removed confusing parenthetical.

zinglersen 5y ago
There's definitely a market for UI designers (as well as visual designers). "UI designer" as a job title basically means you as a designer have clear area of responsibility; the user interface. You find these role in larger companies because when you reach a certain scale you need to build design systems, digital and/or print style guides, asset frameworks, micro animations, etc. Startups typically hire hybrid designers with a mix of UI and UX skills. In Scandinavia these roles are often called "UI/UX designers" and in US, where the design culture is more mature, it's sometimes called a "Product designer" and has a different set of responsibilities. So the short answer is 'yes' but it depends on a lot of things like the size, maturity, and design org. within the company.

azinman2 5y ago

So she lower the contrast and then gave a component a shadow where as none of the others have any 3D effect and are completely flat? It feels widely inconsistent to me and the message doesn’t hit right with me. There are people who train in graphic design that eventually become UI/YX designers… which isn’t to say an artist couldn’t go that route, but this doesn’t seem like a particularly compelling example.

Xevi 5y ago
As a frontend dev I would probably stick to the original design if presented with the new one. The new one is inconsistent and looks slightly outdated. Not saying that the original design is perfect though, or that the new one is crap. On top of that, it has some other weird stuff going on, which might be beside the point, but it still caught my attention. For example, why is every input field now a dropdown? Are you really going to select colors and pixels in a dropdown? It just makes it feel sloppy.

runawaybottle 5y ago

The implications of the article suggest that there is a notion of ‘real art’. Our graphic designers are already real artists, so are our programmers. So the guys and girls that know how to physically paint are real artists, and we need them show us the way? I think not.

egypturnash 5y ago

This article title is kind of hilarious given that yesterday I learnt that Twitter is currently de-emphasizing the display of tweets with links to Patreon in them, thus making it harder for artists to grow their financial support. The tech world will happily use our work to keep people scrolling their endless ad spigots, but the minute we ask people to leave and give some money to us? Nothing. So come join the tech world, artists! Use your hard-won mastery of color, design, and form to help make a nice frame for some Corporate Memphis clip-art we got off a stock site! It'll be great.

pkdpic_y9k 5y ago
Do you have a link to an article on that? Would love to check it out.
- egypturnash 5y ago
  Just a twitter link: https://twitter.com/ThornwolfArt/status/1417952808813301764 https://twitter.com/ThornwolfArt/status/1417952808813301764

cryptica 5y ago

Impostor syndrome is a prerequisite for getting a job these days. Companies only want to hire people who feel like frauds and investors like to invest in people who feel like fraud. Since companies can't actually advertise that they're looking to hire fraudsters, they have to settle for the next closest thing: People who feel like frauds.

wyre 5y ago
Source?
- cryptica 5y ago
  Your own eyes and your brain.

backtoyoujim 5y ago

This article reminds me of people that say the eagles could have dropped the ring into Mordor. The corporate world has spent the better part of a century convincing the populace that when one doesn't work in cubes, "people" like artists, then they aren't really doing their share. And now, suddenly, the corporate state wants those people to prioritize their value as resources to the corporatocracy. Much like the eagles from LOTR, some people don't have any interest of your company, or IPO, or your disruption no matter how "valuable" they could be to some corporate bottom line.

pdog 5y ago
My doctoral thesis was on precisely the question of what role the Great Eagles could have played before and during the War of the Ring to deliver the One Ring to Mordor. It's not simple enough to say they were great beings who would have been corrupted by the ring, or they were not interested in the power of the ring, or even that the story would have ended in ten minutes and therefore they couldn't do it. There is a lot of research and discussion[1][2][3][4][5][6] of this open question. [1]: http://www.sean-crist.com/personal/pages/eagles/index.html http://www.sean-crist.com/personal/pages/eagles/index.html [2]: https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Eagles https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Eagles [3]: https://www.polygon.com/lord-of-the-rings/22432394/eagles-lotr-plot-hole-mordor https://www.polygon.com/lord-of-the-rings/22432394/eagles-lo... [4]: https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/6nysuy/lotr_classic_question_solved_why_did_the_eagles/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/6nysuy/lotr_cl... [5]: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/2333/why-didnt-gandalf-or-frodo-fly-to-mount-doom https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/2333/why-didnt-gan... [6]: https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the-Eagles-fly-the-Ringbearer-partway-to-Mordor-Wouldnt-that-have-shaved-some-time-off-the-journey https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the-Eagles-fly-the-Ringbeare...
unamashana 5y ago
Disclaimer: Not an artist myself but a friend of the writer, and a co-founder of MagicBell - the host of the blog. Aren't there a lot of artists (just like there are lots of actors) who have a day job to pay the bills? If that job happens to be in tech (and pay well) that should ideally be of interest to many people. Not to everyone but surely to some I assume. They won't be invested in the IPO or disruption but they could be interested in doing their job well and making a good living. I have a lot of friends (not all artists) who are super smart but work for low pay at restaurants and I for one sure wish they could work at tech and make more money. I know for a fact many of them would want to.

pkdpic_y9k 5y ago

As a practicing visual artist / art school hippie who recently got into working as a software engineer I got really excited when I saw this, noted problems aside. But I wasn't surprised to see it was limited to UI/UX. I'm having a really hard time finding other art school grads and visual artists working on the engineering side of tech and it's starting to make me feel a little crazy. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to find some other visual artists working as software engineers to connect with?

yungbeto 5y ago
Art school grad here - Though I'm not a professional software developer myself, I have a couple artist/SWE friends who are involved in the Algorave community along with a lot of other creative coders. While not a strictly visual medium it could be a nice jumping off point to look into! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorave
- pkdpic_y9k 5y ago
  Hey thank you so much! Semi-related, I've been trying to get some resources together for a handful of artists / musicians trying to break into tech on this linked repo. If you or your artist/SWE friends have any suggestions on helpful resources I'm desperately trying to get more on there via pull requests or the discord linked in the repo! https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources
motioncuty 5y ago
Hey, lets link up. Does HN have dm's?
- pkdpic_y9k 5y ago
  lol, if only? :^p I recently set up a little discord community and corresponding github repo for a couple of other artists trying to break into tech to share resources, connect etc. Hit me up on there or github for sure! https://discord.gg/3vdb6rk24D https://discord.gg/3vdb6rk24D | https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources https://github.com/tombetthauser/artists-in-tech-resources

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

I personally would rather that all artists stay far, far away from UI design forever, for the simple reason that they will never allow me to customize anything. It's bad enough we're stuck with the current bespoke "light" and "dark" modes in UIs that were fully customizable in the fucking longlongago of the goddamned 90s. Not to mention their propensity for form over function. No thanks. Kindly fuck off.

sergiomattei 5y ago
Way to completely reduce an industry.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Dumblydorr 5y ago

As an amateur painter and professional coder, I must say art and design are key to even my statistical analysis. The issue is the human reader of your product. You want to make their experience easy and pleasant, even if it's reading numerical analyses. Thus, I take very boring looking data and turn it into something that's possible to engage with easily. That's composition, design, detail oriented execution, many crossovers between various creative fields.

pm90 5y ago
Absolutely agree with this. I love that most mainstream monitoring tools today aren’t just “graphs” but they keep in mind contrasting/complementing color codes to make it easy to read and spot changes that may be concerning. If I’m an engineer operating services I probably have to stare at dashboards and graphs a lot; making them pretty/easy to read makes my life just a little bit easier and I’m grateful for that.
nicbou 5y ago
As a technical writer, that also applies to how you write and structure information. I spend a lot of time refining the documentation I write, because I've been the victim of poor documentation. This goes hand in hand with a good design, good typography and quality code. The result is a website that answers your questions and makes you feel more confident about your goals.

baldanders 5y ago

Regarding imposter syndrome: While I know that imposter syndrome is a real phenomenon that people experience, I think that it's become some catch-all solution to the fact that many young people have not actually put in the practice to master their craft. The times in my life where I've felt "imposter syndrome", it would go away after I had put in the work to get better at whatever subject/hobby I was feeling like an imposter doing. This has led me to believe that the majority of people who are dealing with imposter syndrome are in fact just experiencing the perfectly normal discomfort of recognizing that they are not yet as competent in something as they would like to be. I think this may be a result of the postmodern emphasis on subjectivity that has pervaded American culture for the past decade and a half. If your art sucks, which of the following options is easier on your ego? Saying people "just don't get it" and that you're suffering from a psychological condition, or that you just need to practice more?

jraby3 5y ago
I actually think analysis paralysis is more relevant most of the time. It’s not thinking you’re not good enough - more that there are so many options it’s hard to figure out one to focus on. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment.

shadowlight 5y ago

I feel UI designers are all imposters pretending that their job is some kind of ultra high value skill set. The UI designer is an important job but to compare it to a still life painting? Laughable. Literally, that still life painting takes 1000x more skill to render than arranging text, pictures and geometric elements on a website. ANYONE can arrange these elements on a website in a pleasing way. It takes time and effort to consider the best way to arrange these elements but it doesn't take extraordinary talent to do this... anyone can do it. Mind you there are some programmers that are really inept at all forms of "art" but this post isn't direct at those people. On average arranging text in a pleasing way is a trivial exercise. Adding this "color" and "depth" theory on top of it (there's no real science theory here) is just pretentious. Yes these "theories" are sort of applicable but at the same time "what just looks good" also works just as well.

nerdponx 5y ago
This is unbelievably arrogant. Where is your UI portfolio? If UI design were easy, we wouldn't have garbage UIs all over the place.
- shadowlight 5y ago
  Also unbelievably and unfortunately true. The arrogance of a statement has no bearing on truth. Keep your biases in check and examine the truth behind a statement rather then perceived arrogance. Look at https://www.google.com/ https://www.google.com/. It looks clean, and nice and well arranged. Does it look like a work of pure talent and skill and a work of incredible skill and artistry? No. No it does not. Sure google is probably paying some designer 200k to come up with that front page but seriously let's take a look at it from the perspective of reality. How much effort and talent is required to come up with that search page versus painting a still life painting? Let's face it: Not much talent, and not much effort either. You can take it a notch up further and talk about complicated interfaces like gmail or outlook. For that I have to say that there's a lot of TIME involved in thinking through the placement and color coding of the interfaces. But is there talent? No. Anybody can spend the time to think about that stuff. As for painting still life? Or the human figure from thin air? That's raw talent. Not many people can do that no matter how much time you give them. I also bet a good chunk of UI designers don't have the ability to even draw at that level. Have you seen the netflix show Love, death, robots? The artistry in that show is amazing. I respect the people who work on those episodes. That is an example of modern artistry displaying pure talent and raw skill. UI designers in comparison? Imposters, most of them, and I'm not referring to the syndrome. Also I'm not the one claiming I'm good at UI design. I'm calling out the imposters. Why don't you show me your portfolio and I'll give you my honest opinion on it. Good UI design is good UI but man you guys are not "artists" to the degree the people on that netflix show are actual artists.

screye 5y ago

Within the context of contemporary art, UI design and artists are at complete odds with each other. Afaik, contemporary art deliberately rejects art as a tool for expression of traditional aesthetics, utilitarian maximization or broad appeal to the untested eye. Commentary, metaphor and art as a reaction to other art is the norm. None of these trainings lend themselves well to UI Design which is fundamentally about aesthetics facilitating function. IMO, architects would make for great UI designers, as it is another profession that mandates a level of function from the art. They also tend to be quite comfortable with complex software work due to common architectural tools. (a couple of my friends did make the architecture -> UX design transition, and are quite happy) Software engineers are famously stubborn when it comes to their aesthetics. One may say they're sensitive to aesthetics. But IMO, it is more that they're willing to put in a lot of time to learn abstruse interaction patterns and will defend them to death, irrespective of their general purpose appeal or intuitiveness. Git and Vim are amazing examples. Nothing against the tools. But if they needed widespread adoption from the populace then they'd be dead in the water on day 1. (They are amazing despite their terrible UX, not because of it) I like to believe that I am quite sensitive to aesthetics and a well designed UI can elevate a mediocre tool to near unbeatable in their competition space. (The financial planning tool someone posted a few days ago on HN is a great example of UI/UX done right) _______ On another note: Being an artist is also about status and class. Tech is the Noveau-Riche of this half-century. It is the lowest status thing you can be. We see it all the time. Tech bros are the butt of every joke and their hobbies/culture/lifestyles are widely mocked. You never see the same level of disdain towards lawyers in DC or finance bros in NYC as you see for tech people in places like Seattle. It doesn't help that the demographic is generally male, traditionally unattractive, nerdy and socially awkward. (This is slowly changing, but not quickly enough. The appeal of tech to a certain demographic also isn't necessarily a bad thing. I will concede that very likely other professions have occupied this same chair in different eras) The only company that manages to look cool to artists is Apple, and they are very careful about hiding that they are a tech company first, rather preferring to highlight themselves as a fashion company. (The fictionalized steve jobs founding myth also helps a lot) _________ I would love to see more artists come into tech with a mindset of cooperation and good faith towards the community than disdain and disruption. Maybe we'll see truly great UI design.

the_cat_kittles 5y ago

art is often a political choice to prioritize something above money. so its entirely antithetical to lots of people to do what your suggesting. though there's always the urge to sell out to some degree. but this kinda shit comes off like a religious person telling you to join their religion. "tech" in its modern conception is more about money than anything, which often results in extremely lame stuff. you feel sorry for artists who are poor, but they might feel sorry for you because what you do is so lame.

antattack 5y ago

Artists I know don't want to be shacked by corporate structures rather than thinking that they are not smart/capable enough.

ben7799 5y ago

The work on reducing dark mode contrasts seems valid.. lots of dark mode is way too high contrast. It's trendy, so I try it, and pretty immediately can feel the contrast messing with my eyes. So it gets turned off. However I hate the ever increasing emphasis on design that doesn't even care about actual usability. It's all about the shapes and styling of elements and so much less on how all the components fit together, how the user moves through the application, etc.. I've been at this a while and used to be a UI guy, it feels like the balance of design:usability has shifted further towards design than at any other time since I've been using a computer. In places where there used to not be a "designer" flow and usability could end up being emphasized more than it is today. Today a designer sits there and restyles the widgets, in the past with no designer everyone else was happy to take the stock widgets and follow the design guidelines from MS or especially Apple. No thought on restyling widgets meant all the UI design time was on the usability. Thankfully the project I work on right now has a good balance. Prior to our current UI designer we had a design-first person and it was kind of a disaster, stuff was getting restyled while UI requests from customers to fix usability issues were left to wither and die.