9 ms·

It's sort of mentioned, but not emphasized in this review that connection dropouts happen every few minutes for a few seconds. That makes starlink fine for any

• JulianMorrison 5y ago
  I would expect that won't stay a problem for long, they're still pouring those things up there.
• bin_bash 5y ago
  I hope that the problem really is due to lack of infill because that means it'll be temporary.
• geerlingguy 5y ago
  Honestly when I first got the dish, and had it in an open field, that was the case—but now the momentary dropouts between satellites are less than 1-2 seconds. They had 1000 or so satellites when I first started testing, and there are now something like 1600 or so. Most of the time, I don't even notice when it switches satellites. If you were doing some more real-time work or extremely latency-sensitive operations, then yes, you need to stick to a different type of connection. But it's really seamless now, compared to even a few months ago. Most of the software I used either showed no sign of the dropout, or at worst would freeze a frame or show a loading indicator for a brief moment before getting back to normal. Online multiplayer gaming and/or streaming are the main areas where I'd have to not recommend Starlink for now.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • taf2 5y ago
    I'm thinking of using this for a backup connection if FIOS fails... we'd switch our office over to starlink... currently we switch to comcast and it's basicaly unsable... so wonder if starlink would be good for ssh connections etc...
    • solarengineer 5y ago
      When I connect to remote servers over SSH, I usually start a screen (another alternative is tmux) session and then perform my administrative and diagnostics actions in that session. This way, even if I get disconnected, I can reconnect and join that running session. There are other benefits to a screen multiplexer - such as multiple remote users being able to attach to the same session, a joy when a distributed team needs to diagnose an issue or watch some actions together.
      • jefftk 5y ago
        Combine with mosh and you can even keep editing while the connection blips!
      • iotku 5y ago
        You may also want to look into mosh [1] as it will handle dropouts and continue where ssh would just fail on its own. Also has local echo for points of high latency. Was a real life saver on some of the terrible sat connections of yesteryear. 1. https://mosh.org/ https://mosh.org/
        • aruggirello 5y ago
          How does it compare to autossh?
          • wffurr 5y ago
• Reason077 5y ago
  > "It's sort of mentioned, but not emphasized in this review that connection dropouts happen every few minutes for a few seconds." He mentions that this is due to the Starlink dish's view of the sky being partially obscured by trees. This will presumably improve as the number of Starlink satellites grows, as it will be more likely that there will be an unobstructed satellite in view at any moment, and less frequent switching between satellites.
  • CydeWeys 5y ago
    And he also mentions that if this were his only Internet, he would trim the tree branches to get a better view of the sky. That's not what I'd do though; I'd put the satellite dish on a radio mast. Anyone who's ever done any kind of radio work knows that antenna height is everything, and in his specific case it's important for a different reason: avoiding line-of-sight obstructions.
    • ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Repending on height of the mast, it could be more expensive than the rest of your setup combined
      • manquer 5y ago
        trimming trees is a recurring activity, it might be expensive over time depending on type of trees and access etc
    • imhoguy 5y ago
      Maybe mounting the dish to tree would save your trees? https://asadotzler.com/2021/03/11/starlinks-view-of-the-sky/ https://asadotzler.com/2021/03/11/starlinks-view-of-the-sky/ https://asadotzler.com/2021/03/13/starlink-tree-mount/ https://asadotzler.com/2021/03/13/starlink-tree-mount/
      • robocat 5y ago
        I mounted a point-to-point link in a tree at either end. 1. Trees sway. It did matter for the PtP link in my case. 2. Installation and maintenance took time and it was dangerous. 3. Leaves and branches grow. Obstruction and misalignment over time were problems. Advantages: it did work, and it was cheap and fun to do. I probably could not have installed a tall enough mast (too ugly to be accepted).
• xoa 5y ago
  >but not emphasized in this review that connection dropouts happen every few minutes for a few seconds I don't see this at all. I have constant uptime monitoring, and connection drops are now a minute or two per week. We use it for VoIP, there is no cellular coverage at all where I have it deployed. Edit: Also, I mentioned this in my fuller main comment but this is around the 45th parallel in New England, and around 1500' (500m) above sea level. This location is also within approximately 50-70 miles ground level of two separate Starlink ground station installations. The nature of Starlink is that there is much more of a geographic component than most people are used to in a WAN link, so it's probably important when talking experience to specify rough area of the world one is in. Once the network is completely built up that may not matter much anymore, but at this point there are definite coverage density differences, and with the current bent-pipe usage ground stations matter too more. Anyone interested in getting an idea of current planetary station and sat deployments might find this site interesting: https://satellitemap.space/ https://satellitemap.space/
• epmaybe 5y ago
  Obviously latency is important in synchronous use cases like video calls, however I wonder if a delay for slower one on one discussions would be all that jarring for users
• tylerscott 5y ago
  I use it for zoom daily. Yesterday was the first day in awhile where I had difficulty completing a call. The handoffs now last only about a second or two. Previously they’d be 15 or so seconds but that hasn’t happened for over a month. It is my daily driver though I do have back up DSL just in case.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• fossuser 5y ago
  It works with video calls, I’ve done it often. Occasional blips occur, but the call isn’t dropped (and this is with some tree obstruction). So it’s worth just getting it if that’s what you want it for. It’s probably 10x better than your existing connection.
• gibolt 5y ago
  For the remote areas this is intended for, it is already a 10x or more improvement. Great internet service is better than perfectly reliable slow internet.
• NelsonMinar 5y ago
  The outages have been getting better recently. They are supposed to go away entirely once the first constellation is fully complete. If you don't have obstructions, that is.
• chrisseaton 5y ago
  > It's implied that this is due to the trees obstructing a full view of the sky Why is the antenna on the ground and not up on a tall mast?
  • JasonFruit 5y ago
    It certainly can be on a mast; I put mine on a (short) steel tube mast, and it's been a great improvement on service that was already a vast improvement over Hughesnet-provided satellite.
  • geerlingguy 5y ago
    Mine is mounted near the top of my roof's ridge. The problem is there are 8 trees (five of them more than 75') around my one-story house.
  • canucker2016 5y ago
    He mounted the dish on his roof. There are still some tall trees in the way of the dish. Here's his YouTube video of the installation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynsCVOz7jv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynsCVOz7jv4
• brummm 5y ago
  Had a team mate on Starlink and they would drop from our zoom call essentially every single time.
  • ToFab123 5y ago
    How long is that ago?
  • kortilla 5y ago
    Maybe your meetings are just boring
• jbluepolarbear 5y ago
  My mom has been using Starlink in Albany, OR for 2 months. It started spotty, but now works better than her other Comcast connection. The only issue is that every day at 7ish they lose connection for about 5 minutes. She’s said it’s not been a huge issue and plans to cancel her Comcast at the end of her contract. She works remote and Starlink has been great for video calls and video streaming. She’s getting 30-40 down and 20-30 ms latency; Comcast is 20 down and 25 ms latency.
• chollida1 5y ago
  > It's sort of mentioned, but not emphasized in this review that connection dropouts happen every few minutes for a few seconds. That makes starlink fine for any kind of asynchronous content like web browsing, torrenting or video streaming, but unusable for video calls, stream hosting, voip, or online gaming Yep, been our experience as well. We've got a few of us who wanted to trade from our cottages and its just unusable if you need a continuous signal for more than 10 minutes at a time. That doesn't mean its useless, just that its not usable if you want to do voip, trading, video calls etc. Hopefully they'll figure out what causes drop ever few minutes at some point. But currently given how expensive it and the hardware are its a very disappointing product. I guess we're just spoiled now a days with the 1Gbps wired internet that most city homes have access to.
  • foobiekr 5y ago
    When these dropouts occur, is the IP address stable?
    • pomian 5y ago
      Yes. We have the drops also. But they are happening less, and for only a blink. In the worst case, we experience a freeze frame. Most of the time can barely see the freeze.
  • kortilla 5y ago
    If you’re getting drops every few minutes your view is obstructed. That’s about the time it takes an LEO sat to cross the sky so your dish probably can’t see a critical region in the orbit.
• shagie 5y ago
  > It's implied that this is due to the trees obstructing a full view of the sky, but I have actually heard these connection dropouts are just about universal due to the constellation not having enough infill. If you go to https://satellitemap.space/# https://satellitemap.space/# and enter in your GPS location in the settings (45, -90 for a rural northern Wisconsin as an example), and you can see the satellites that that location has visibility of. And there are times when there's nothing in that area of the sky.
  • agildehaus 5y ago
    https://starlink.sx/ https://starlink.sx/ can generate a coverage prediction chart for you
• dataflow 5y ago
  > That makes starlink fine for any kind of asynchronous content like web browsing This sounds terrible for web browsing. Last thing I want is to know is to submit a form and then have my connection drop out in the middle. Imagine being in the middle of filling out an application or opening an account or verifying your identity or something like that.
  • geerlingguy 5y ago
    If the connection drops for less than 5-10 seconds (this happens even on my Cable Internet sometimes), it's no problem. Most timeouts and TCP connections are okay with complete dropouts for 30 or 60 seconds (sometimes longer), as long as your local LAN doesn't drop your network connection.
    • dataflow 5y ago
      Doesn't that depend on the nature of the "drop"? When it's just lack of signal then sure, but when I see connections break even momentarily (on cable...), there's often some sort of feedback (I think sometimes it's a connection reset?) that causes the browser to just error immediately, and then I have to reload the page... despite still being on the same network with the same IPs and such.
      • lazide 5y ago
        That is because of the way your connection is being dropped/what your router is doing. It’s sending reset messages back to your client telling it your connection is dead, instead of trying to resend your packets - which then succeed when the connection is back up.
        • dataflow 5y ago
          That's a possibility in theory; I haven't root-caused this to know what's happening in every case (again: not every drop is the same). Regardless, I'm just talking about what the average end-user might see; I don't really care where the blame goes.
• jdc 5y ago
  It may be that anyone who is willing and able to do so has already thought of it, but on Linux you could multiplex the connection with LTE/3G/dialup and probably get pretty good results.
• boringg 5y ago
  As a user of Starlink for more than 4 months - the quality has improved. While you say it is unusable for video calls, i think that is way overstated and it completely depends on where you are trying to connect. Compared to the other options which were atrocious (10 MB down max, 3 MB Up max, weather changes everything) - the hiccup you get maybe every 10 minutes for 10 seconds - is annoying but not a deal breaker for VOIP calls. If you are doing client side calls maybe a deal breaker - team calls manageable but annoying. Also I do calls with our Australian team (and were North America based) and they are on cable internet and they get hiccuped in the same amount. So actually I would say that Starlink is on par if not better than their connection. If you are comparing the internet to city quality cable then yeah not comparable - but thats not what they are targeting. They are bringing remote areas online.
  • geerlingguy 5y ago
    To be honest, one-on-one Facetime calls and Zoom are almost perfect now, with few bits where it would pause and come back. Group calls were even less of a problem, because we're all used to one or two people having connection issues, and it's easy to work around that.
  • dougmwne 5y ago
    Yeah, different call quality requirements I think. I am mostly on client calls and I have a ready alternative to be on fiber. If I head out to my place in the country and have crappy call quality as a result, that does not go over so well.
• pomian 5y ago
  That was the feeling a few months ago. But in the last 2 months, we have used zoom and other applications with very little drop outs. I have various TV stations running for hours at a time at high resolutions, and at the most there is a freeze frame for a split second once or twice every few hours. Frankly, I have had more issues with all the other internet connections we still maintain, than with Starlink. (Zoom was always dropping out with the others.) For example we have: (Slow) high speed DSL, (slow) high speed lte. In all those the internet download speeds are very variable, start fast (5-12) dropping to 0.5-1 and going up and down over time. Starlink maintains over 20 down, going up sometimes to over 30. We are in the countryside in Canada, so true high speed doesn't exist. For now, Starlink is the most dependable high speed option. (What will happen when more subscribers will join all on the one satellite?)
• jjeaff 5y ago
  Zoom handles intermittent dropouts better than anything else I have seen and I don't quite understand the whole mechanism. When you lose a connection for a few seconds, maybe even 10 seconds, the video will pause, but when your connection reconnects, it continues where it paused. So you don't miss anything. I believe at some point when the speaker stops talking, like waiting for a response, it will jump cut their video to a more live feed again. So that you don't get too far behind. I'm curious if anyone here knows about how this works and if it is common practice in live video chat?
  • chromakode 5y ago
    WebRTC adjusts playback speed to accommodate variable network latency. Here's a paper which describes it a bit. https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/PQS_2016/abstracts/19.html https://www.isca-speech.org/archive/PQS_2016/abstracts/19.ht...
    • henryaj 5y ago
      Yes! I had noticed this - cool to read more about it.
• fastaguy88 5y ago
  As Geerling points out, he has substantial obstructions. I have no obstructions, and see a few seconds of downtime per day. My wife and I regularly have multi-hour zoom calls with no problems. Obstructions are a problem, but users with no alternative are much more motivated to locate the dish appropriately. Starlink is not for people who have gigabit wired connections. For those of us who were lucky to get a hotspot to work long enough to use our 15Gb cap, it is a godsend.
• amatecha 5y ago
  Dunno, I did a ~20min FaceTime call that was essentially flawless. That call ended with me being very impressed by the stability and bandwidth of the connection. Far better than the satellite service at the location previously. Maybe it was just pure luck? Not sure, but the consistent 90-100mbit downstream and 2-digit ping is pretty impressive.
• mabbo 5y ago
  I think it's important to remember that "connections" in networking aren't actually connections. Everything is sent one packet at a time over networks that aren't presumed to be stable. That means the entire system is resilient. A 2-second pause in connectivity usually won't mean the app dies. It means the application presumes it dropped a few packets, which it did. Now, if you're playing a very fast-paced multi-player game, a 2-second lag at the wrong moment can spell disaster. But most video call programs can easily handle a 2-second blip in connectivity, annoying though it is for participants- I see those all the time on my non-Satellite based internet.
• kortilla 5y ago
  The dropouts are not universal. Results in the Starlink subreddit make it quite clear that you’re either obstructed or maybe have bad dish.
• mlindner 5y ago
  That's because he has huge sections of his sky blocked. > It's implied that this is due to the trees obstructing a full view of the sky It's not implied, it's explicitly the reason... > but I have actually heard these connection dropouts are just about universal due to the constellation not having enough infill. That used to be the problem. Most users now report (you can see them talking about it on the starlink subreddit all the time) that they're now going days to weeks without a single drop.