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You say that right now, the numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines. I disagree, but even if you're right, that's only right now. Until we know more abo

You say that right now, the numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines. I disagree, but even if you're right, that's only right now. Until we know more about their long-term effects, we don't know. I'm in the age group that has higher risk of blood clots from the vaccines. Also, according to some estimates, 60-90% of people have had COVID, so I could have had it.

CorrectHorseBat 5y ago
> You say that right now, the numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines. I disagree, but even if you're right, How can you possibly disagree with that? There is a several orders of magnitude difference. Data for the USA: there are 6,207 reports of people dying after getting the vaccine (of which only a few have a plausible causal relationship between getting the vaccine and death) [1], while there are 607,289 registered COVID-19 deaths [2] (and yes, the excess deaths do agree with that number [3]). There are exactly three confirmed vaccine deaths in the USA, from TTS due to the J&J vaccine. > Until we know more about their long-term effects, we don't know I agree, so we should act on basis of the data we have right now. And that data says overwhelmingly says getting a vaccine is much safer than getting COVID-19 on the short and mid long-term. There is nothing that points to that on the long term suddenly the vaccines will be worse than the virus. > I'm in the age group that has higher risk of blood clots from the vaccines. There is no evidence that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines increase the risk of blood cloths. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that COVID-19 does. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad... [2] https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fcases-updates%2Fcases-in-us.html#cases_deathsper100klast7days https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?CDC_AA_refVal=http... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
- ghoward 5y ago
  We should not act just on the basis of data we know now. We should also follow the Precautionary Principle. These vaccines are still experimental. I am not going to take any one of them until at least they are not and companies accept liability for them. On top of that, trying to shame people into taking the vaccines, as I see so many doing, is authoritarian. It does not lead to a good place. This is my line in the sand against authoritarianism. It turns out that my line is against being forced to be part of an experiment. Where's yours?

CorrectHorseBat 5y ago

> You say that right now, the numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines. I disagree, but even if you're right, How can you possibly disagree with that? There is a several orders of magnitude difference. Data for the USA: there are 6,207 reports of people dying after getting the vaccine (of which only a few have a plausible causal relationship between getting the vaccine and death) [1], while there are 607,289 registered COVID-19 deaths [2] (and yes, the excess deaths do agree with that number [3]). There are exactly three confirmed vaccine deaths in the USA, from TTS due to the J&J vaccine. > Until we know more about their long-term effects, we don't know I agree, so we should act on basis of the data we have right now. And that data says overwhelmingly says getting a vaccine is much safer than getting COVID-19 on the short and mid long-term. There is nothing that points to that on the long term suddenly the vaccines will be worse than the virus. > I'm in the age group that has higher risk of blood clots from the vaccines. There is no evidence that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines increase the risk of blood cloths. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that COVID-19 does. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad... [2] https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fcases-updates%2Fcases-in-us.html#cases_deathsper100klast7days https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/?CDC_AA_refVal=http... [3] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

ghoward 5y ago
We should not act just on the basis of data we know now. We should also follow the Precautionary Principle. These vaccines are still experimental. I am not going to take any one of them until at least they are not and companies accept liability for them. On top of that, trying to shame people into taking the vaccines, as I see so many doing, is authoritarian. It does not lead to a good place. This is my line in the sand against authoritarianism. It turns out that my line is against being forced to be part of an experiment. Where's yours?