4 ms·

Which seems like a rather reasonable measure to keep people from spreading a dangerous disease for which they refuse to get vaccinated against.

gruez 5y ago
That's why you have to use one of the operating systems on the NSA Certified Secured Operating Systems list, which contain antivirus software[1]. It's a rather reasonable measure, because it keeps computers from spreading dangerous worms/viruses/ransomware for which they refuse to get to protection against. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27917105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27917105
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
alexseman 5y ago
oh give me a break...
vetinari 5y ago
Given that experience has shown that vaccinated people can spread the same disease as well AND they are more reckless because they think that they are immune now, I would not consider that a reasonable measure. Now it seems more like punishment for not obeying the government, and less like health concern.
- tasogare 5y ago
  Yes, and the biggest proof of this is hospitals will soon impose the sanitary pass (from 1st August). If the pass was really about public health of the population, hospitals would be the last place to be restricted.
- cartoonworld 5y ago
  The vaccinated people can spread the disease like you can still get herpes when you use a condom. FYI, condoms grant you a 30% reduction of infection rate for the relevant type. We should definitely be vaccinated, and in in doing so, using the power and strengths of modern society to reap the benefits we are supposedly living in it for the purpose of creating for ourselves in the first place. Vaccinated people can spread the virus, but the rates are much[0] less[4] because the immune system is actively controlling[1] the outbreak. Viral load correlates strongly with ones ability to transmit Sars-CoV-2[5] This beats my herpes example like electricity beats wood gas for lighting. Vaccinated people get and transmit the Sars-CoV-2 virus at much lower rates[3, page 10][4], and essentially never become very ill. Death is not the only effect of Sars-CoV-2, it has a variety of negative effects from the mild, to the bad, onward to the extremely taxing COVID, and critical hospitalization. This is aside from other secondary social, psychological and economic impacts. If you rate the risk of death as fine and think we should just take a chance, everybody in the world feeling very ill for a few weeks is not nothing. Those people are air traffic controllers, doctors, mechanics, chefs, pilots, nuclear safety officers, police, etc and their normal operation matters for the operation of society. [0] - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.12.21260377v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.12.21260377v... [1] - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7 [3] - March 2021 representing early evidence: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Risk-of-transmission-and-reinfection-of-SARS-CoV-2-following-vaccination.pdf https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Ris... [4] - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.11.21253275v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.11.21253275v... [5] - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473309920309853 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S147330992...
penultimatebro 5y ago
Now just solve for people that have had the dangerous disease, have recovered from it, and now are arguably better protected from variants than the vaccinated.
- deegles 5y ago
  You can argue for anything you believe in, but that doesn't make it true. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html
loup-vaillant 5y ago
It is not at all clear that we French were actually refusing to get vaccinated. First, it would seem the least vaccinated people were generally the poorest as well. The vaccine is free, but we generally need to get an appointment through some web site, on our own initiative. Our appointed family doctor did not call us to even ask whether we'd like to be vaccinated. This hints towards an accessibility problem. Second, when you look at the charts https://covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/ https://covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/ (Click the "Injections Quotidiennes" tab on the second figure.), you can see that the daily injection didn't fall. It merely plateaued. Sure, first injections did fall, but they did so at the same time second injections were soaring, so they compensated each other. This plateau suggests our vaccination centres were simply functioning at (or close to) full capacity. Third, on July the 12th, at the time our President made his speech about restricting everyone's freedom (including the vaccinated, since you'd have to present your digital pass basically everywhere to basically anyone), they were justifying our "Reluctance" by quoting vaccination rate across the whole population, which was around 52%. What they didn't say is that this stats includes children under 12, for which vaccination is simply not available, and teenagers, for which our CCNE (Comité Consultatif National d'Éthique) said on June the 9th that it was not clear teenage vaccination was safe enough https://www.ccne-ethique.fr/fr/actualites/enjeux-ethiques-relatifs-la-vaccination-contre-la-covid-19-des-enfants-et-des-adolescents https://www.ccne-ethique.fr/fr/actualites/enjeux-ethiques-re... It's only reasonable under these circumstances to exclude all underage people from the statistics. I found that the vaccination rate among adults was almost reaching 70%, and climbing. My conclusion: what our president is attempting is utterly disproportionate and unjustified. Don't get me wrong, we are facing a fourth wave right now. Maybe something does indeed need to be done. But a digital pass? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCUTX1jurJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCUTX1jurJ4 No thanks.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > The vaccine is free, but we generally need to get an appointment through some web site, on our own initiative. Our appointed family doctor did not call us to even ask whether we'd like to be vaccinated. This hints towards an accessibility problem. Just put walk-in vaccination stands in super-markets/subway stations. Why exactly is there a need for an appointment to get a 30 second jab + 15 minute observation period?

gruez 5y ago

That's why you have to use one of the operating systems on the NSA Certified Secured Operating Systems list, which contain antivirus software[1]. It's a rather reasonable measure, because it keeps computers from spreading dangerous worms/viruses/ransomware for which they refuse to get to protection against. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27917105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27917105

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

alexseman 5y ago

oh give me a break...

vetinari 5y ago

Given that experience has shown that vaccinated people can spread the same disease as well AND they are more reckless because they think that they are immune now, I would not consider that a reasonable measure. Now it seems more like punishment for not obeying the government, and less like health concern.

tasogare 5y ago
Yes, and the biggest proof of this is hospitals will soon impose the sanitary pass (from 1st August). If the pass was really about public health of the population, hospitals would be the last place to be restricted.
cartoonworld 5y ago
The vaccinated people can spread the disease like you can still get herpes when you use a condom. FYI, condoms grant you a 30% reduction of infection rate for the relevant type. We should definitely be vaccinated, and in in doing so, using the power and strengths of modern society to reap the benefits we are supposedly living in it for the purpose of creating for ourselves in the first place. Vaccinated people can spread the virus, but the rates are much[0] less[4] because the immune system is actively controlling[1] the outbreak. Viral load correlates strongly with ones ability to transmit Sars-CoV-2[5] This beats my herpes example like electricity beats wood gas for lighting. Vaccinated people get and transmit the Sars-CoV-2 virus at much lower rates[3, page 10][4], and essentially never become very ill. Death is not the only effect of Sars-CoV-2, it has a variety of negative effects from the mild, to the bad, onward to the extremely taxing COVID, and critical hospitalization. This is aside from other secondary social, psychological and economic impacts. If you rate the risk of death as fine and think we should just take a chance, everybody in the world feeling very ill for a few weeks is not nothing. Those people are air traffic controllers, doctors, mechanics, chefs, pilots, nuclear safety officers, police, etc and their normal operation matters for the operation of society. [0] - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.12.21260377v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.12.21260377v... [1] - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7 [3] - March 2021 representing early evidence: https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Risk-of-transmission-and-reinfection-of-SARS-CoV-2-following-vaccination.pdf https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Ris... [4] - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.11.21253275v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.11.21253275v... [5] - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1473309920309853 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S147330992...

penultimatebro 5y ago

Now just solve for people that have had the dangerous disease, have recovered from it, and now are arguably better protected from variants than the vaccinated.

deegles 5y ago
You can argue for anything you believe in, but that doesn't make it true. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

loup-vaillant 5y ago

It is not at all clear that we French were actually refusing to get vaccinated. First, it would seem the least vaccinated people were generally the poorest as well. The vaccine is free, but we generally need to get an appointment through some web site, on our own initiative. Our appointed family doctor did not call us to even ask whether we'd like to be vaccinated. This hints towards an accessibility problem. Second, when you look at the charts https://covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/ https://covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/ (Click the "Injections Quotidiennes" tab on the second figure.), you can see that the daily injection didn't fall. It merely plateaued. Sure, first injections did fall, but they did so at the same time second injections were soaring, so they compensated each other. This plateau suggests our vaccination centres were simply functioning at (or close to) full capacity. Third, on July the 12th, at the time our President made his speech about restricting everyone's freedom (including the vaccinated, since you'd have to present your digital pass basically everywhere to basically anyone), they were justifying our "Reluctance" by quoting vaccination rate across the whole population, which was around 52%. What they didn't say is that this stats includes children under 12, for which vaccination is simply not available, and teenagers, for which our CCNE (Comité Consultatif National d'Éthique) said on June the 9th that it was not clear teenage vaccination was safe enough https://www.ccne-ethique.fr/fr/actualites/enjeux-ethiques-relatifs-la-vaccination-contre-la-covid-19-des-enfants-et-des-adolescents https://www.ccne-ethique.fr/fr/actualites/enjeux-ethiques-re... It's only reasonable under these circumstances to exclude all underage people from the statistics. I found that the vaccination rate among adults was almost reaching 70%, and climbing. My conclusion: what our president is attempting is utterly disproportionate and unjustified. Don't get me wrong, we are facing a fourth wave right now. Maybe something does indeed need to be done. But a digital pass? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCUTX1jurJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCUTX1jurJ4 No thanks.

908B64B197 5y ago
> The vaccine is free, but we generally need to get an appointment through some web site, on our own initiative. Our appointed family doctor did not call us to even ask whether we'd like to be vaccinated. This hints towards an accessibility problem. Just put walk-in vaccination stands in super-markets/subway stations. Why exactly is there a need for an appointment to get a 30 second jab + 15 minute observation period?