3 ms·

This is very valuable information if true, can you provide some sort of references?

by orzig 5y ago

abduhl 5y ago
It’s pretty common sense. Underground breaks cost more to fix because you have to dig the line up both to find the problem and fix it. Above ground problems are visible while underground problems are invisible. Not to mention that above ground lines have slack between poles while underground lines are pulled relatively taut. Any shifting in the ground is going to result in a break underground before a break above ground. Above ground lines are also better founded because the poles are sitting on foundations or driven deep so their ability to resist ground motion is a bit better while electric lines move with the ground around them pretty much in sync. This is particularly important in seismically active areas like CA but underground infrastructure actually typically performs better in actual seismic events.
- mattferderer 5y ago
  Another 2 cents. Drones are very popular for being able to quickly look at above ground lines. You can easily & quickly determine if parts are in need of repair or soon will be. I don't know if a similar thing exists in underground without building some type of complex tunnel system.
- lostcolony 5y ago
  "Common sense" does not always equate to facts or relevance. While, yes, the cost to dig up a line is likely to be higher than the cost to repair a hanging line, that's just one cost and consideration. Economic loss due to wildfire as well as rolling brownouts to try and avoid wildfire are both costs you'd need to consider. You also have the cost to maintain vegetation around powerlines, vs basically no pre-emptive maintenance on buried lines (and little to no weathering). And you, of course, have differing likelihoods of the line breaking in any case, which means the per-fix cost is only part of that picture. Lots of potential reasons, but I'd be curious to see a full study on those reasons for both above ground and below ground, their potential solutions, and their potential costs, but without that you have a very fuzzy picture.
  - bastardoperator 5y ago
    When you're getting hit with class action lawsuits and killing people left and right, I don't think the math adds up. If the electrical lines were underground PG&E stock wouldn't have dropped from 70 dollars a share to 9 which reminds me "lo barato siempre es más caro" The cheap is always more expensive.
  - abduhl 5y ago
    Why would you have to consider all these costs you’re talking about when it’s been made clear that these power companies will not be allowed to fail and will be bailed out by the government (but never taken over because they’re a convenient whipping boy)?
- jschwartzi 5y ago
  You don’t have to dig up the entire line to find a break. This is a common misconception. Signal reflection can be used to determine the distance to a break. see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometer
  - bluGill 5y ago
    You still have to dig it up to fix it.

This is very valuable information if true, can you provide some sort of references?

by orzig 5y ago

This is very valuable information if true, can you provide some sort of references?

It’s pretty common sense. Underground breaks cost more to fix because you have to dig the line up both to find the problem and fix it. Above ground problems are visible while underground problems are invisible. Not to mention that above ground lines have slack between poles while underground lines are pulled relatively taut. Any shifting in the ground is going to result in a break underground before a break above ground. Above ground lines are also better founded because the poles are sitting on foundations or driven deep so their ability to resist ground motion is a bit better while electric lines move with the ground around them pretty much in sync. This is particularly important in seismically active areas like CA but underground infrastructure actually typically performs better in actual seismic events.

mattferderer 5y ago
Another 2 cents. Drones are very popular for being able to quickly look at above ground lines. You can easily & quickly determine if parts are in need of repair or soon will be. I don't know if a similar thing exists in underground without building some type of complex tunnel system.
lostcolony 5y ago
"Common sense" does not always equate to facts or relevance. While, yes, the cost to dig up a line is likely to be higher than the cost to repair a hanging line, that's just one cost and consideration. Economic loss due to wildfire as well as rolling brownouts to try and avoid wildfire are both costs you'd need to consider. You also have the cost to maintain vegetation around powerlines, vs basically no pre-emptive maintenance on buried lines (and little to no weathering). And you, of course, have differing likelihoods of the line breaking in any case, which means the per-fix cost is only part of that picture. Lots of potential reasons, but I'd be curious to see a full study on those reasons for both above ground and below ground, their potential solutions, and their potential costs, but without that you have a very fuzzy picture.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  When you're getting hit with class action lawsuits and killing people left and right, I don't think the math adds up. If the electrical lines were underground PG&E stock wouldn't have dropped from 70 dollars a share to 9 which reminds me "lo barato siempre es más caro" The cheap is always more expensive.
- abduhl 5y ago
  Why would you have to consider all these costs you’re talking about when it’s been made clear that these power companies will not be allowed to fail and will be bailed out by the government (but never taken over because they’re a convenient whipping boy)?
jschwartzi 5y ago
You don’t have to dig up the entire line to find a break. This is a common misconception. Signal reflection can be used to determine the distance to a break. see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time-domain_reflectometer
- bluGill 5y ago
  You still have to dig it up to fix it.