5 ms·

The problem is the militarization of the American police force. I have been on countless raids in both Iraq and Afghanistan and very rarely did we ever do “no-k

The problem is the militarization of the American police force. I have been on countless raids in both Iraq and Afghanistan and very rarely did we ever do “no-knock” type raids. Most of the time we just surround the compound, throw a banger in the front lawn and ask for the occupants to exit the building. Most of the time they did. So if “no-knock” raids weren’t the status quo in a war zone than it shouldn’t be the standard in American suburbs. This isn’t Fallujah…

sebmellen 5y ago
In this case the man left his house with a firearm and the police did not shoot him — he had a heart attack. The harassment in this case was not just SWAT-ing, but also ordering pizzas, harassing relatives, etc. Unfortunately, harsh sentencing and tougher enforcement/legal action against the perpetrators is probably the only way to stop the issue.
- volta83 5y ago
  The police asked a fat old man to jump over a fence, and the. To crawl under it. The police job is always descalation. After reading that story, it doesn’t feel like they de escalated anything.
ryathal 5y ago
There is a minor defense that a lot of evidence police care about can be destroyed using this method as opposed to no knock raids, the army isn't concerned with jury trials. I don't think that's a good justification for 99% of no knock raids anyway though.
volta83 5y ago
There is probably a big difference between the type of training and procedures between the police in the US and the US army. I don’t support militarization of the police, but the problem here is “poorly executed militarization”. In Switzerland, anyone with sufficient training and mental capabilities can keep a gun at home. In the US, any psycho without training can have a gun. The problem isn’t the guns, but rather guns in the hands of idiots. Same here with militarization of the police. We’re they to receive the same training as the US army, and abide by the same rules, they’ll probably do significantly less harm than what they do now.
- slater 5y ago
  Just FYI re: Switzerland and guns, because the gun nuts always bring it up, yet oddly enough always neglect to mention that ammo is RIDICULOUSLY well regulated in CH. So, yes, folks who've done their Swiss military service have their gun at home. Sans ammo.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  > We’re they to receive the same training as the US army, and abide by the same rules At that point why not just replace the police with the army then?
  - volta83 5y ago
    That sounds like a much better idea than giving army equipment to untrained civilians... --- I'm not in favor of replacing the police with the army, just pointing out that it would be a less stupid idea than giving untrained civilians army weaponry they lack the expertise to handle.
- treeman79 5y ago
  The is a different angle to consider. Is it okay to shoot someone to protect life and or property? Some feel it’s almost/never justified. Basically criminals can do whatever they want. (San Francisco) Others feel it’s a moral responsibility to shoot. And that society is better if bad people fear being shot. (Texas) People who do bad of course, have their own preferences. A persons opinion on that is going to drastically affect their viewpoint on guns.
- lovetocode 5y ago
  You are absolutely right.

sebmellen 5y ago

In this case the man left his house with a firearm and the police did not shoot him — he had a heart attack. The harassment in this case was not just SWAT-ing, but also ordering pizzas, harassing relatives, etc. Unfortunately, harsh sentencing and tougher enforcement/legal action against the perpetrators is probably the only way to stop the issue.

volta83 5y ago
The police asked a fat old man to jump over a fence, and the. To crawl under it. The police job is always descalation. After reading that story, it doesn’t feel like they de escalated anything.

ryathal 5y ago

There is a minor defense that a lot of evidence police care about can be destroyed using this method as opposed to no knock raids, the army isn't concerned with jury trials. I don't think that's a good justification for 99% of no knock raids anyway though.

volta83 5y ago

There is probably a big difference between the type of training and procedures between the police in the US and the US army. I don’t support militarization of the police, but the problem here is “poorly executed militarization”. In Switzerland, anyone with sufficient training and mental capabilities can keep a gun at home. In the US, any psycho without training can have a gun. The problem isn’t the guns, but rather guns in the hands of idiots. Same here with militarization of the police. We’re they to receive the same training as the US army, and abide by the same rules, they’ll probably do significantly less harm than what they do now.

slater 5y ago
Just FYI re: Switzerland and guns, because the gun nuts always bring it up, yet oddly enough always neglect to mention that ammo is RIDICULOUSLY well regulated in CH. So, yes, folks who've done their Swiss military service have their gun at home. Sans ammo.
the_only_law 5y ago
> We’re they to receive the same training as the US army, and abide by the same rules At that point why not just replace the police with the army then?
- volta83 5y ago
  That sounds like a much better idea than giving army equipment to untrained civilians... --- I'm not in favor of replacing the police with the army, just pointing out that it would be a less stupid idea than giving untrained civilians army weaponry they lack the expertise to handle.
treeman79 5y ago
The is a different angle to consider. Is it okay to shoot someone to protect life and or property? Some feel it’s almost/never justified. Basically criminals can do whatever they want. (San Francisco) Others feel it’s a moral responsibility to shoot. And that society is better if bad people fear being shot. (Texas) People who do bad of course, have their own preferences. A persons opinion on that is going to drastically affect their viewpoint on guns.
lovetocode 5y ago
You are absolutely right.