6 ms·

The comments here are disheartening looking at it from the UK. In the south of England I'm making 32k as devops lead at a small digital agency (handling the inf

The comments here are disheartening looking at it from the UK. In the south of England I'm making 32k as devops lead at a small digital agency (handling the infrastructure for a collection of Wordpress sites and Umbraco sites, nothing crazy, a bit under 500k unique hits/week). It's difficult to know how hard I should be considering something else, or if thinking about it is just getting caught up in HN-comment-inflation.

mcntsh 5y ago
Digital agencies pay less, since they're often contracted out at competitive rates and they aren't propped up by imaginary investor money. I worked in agencies for most of my career. They're more rewarding to work for, and offer great experiences, but if you want money you have to move into the corporate/startup world.
jstx1 5y ago
> It's difficult to know how hard I should be considering something else Hard - I don't know which city you're in but £32k is low for a senior role anywhere in the UK. In London that's a low salary for a graduate role. I'm similarly disheartened when I read people mentioning that £90-120k salaries are fairly common in London (those numbers seem completely our of reach to me) or when I read about salaries in the US.
- agent008t 5y ago
  Just curious - what is your annual spend, including paying for somewhere to live? In London, a smallish 2-bed apartment would rent for £2500/month. So around £32000/year just for somewhere to live. Overall, 2 people living in an apartment within cycling commute of work would spend around £60000/year - not being frugal but not exactly living in luxury either.
  - mrcartmenez 5y ago
    False. There are over 6500 properties with at least two bedrooms listed for rent on Zoopla for less than £1500per month. https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/property/london/?beds_min=2&price_frequency=per_month&price_max=1500&q=London&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/property/london/?beds_min=2... If you don’t have kids, get one of the several thousand one bedroom places listed for less than 1k per month.
    - agent008t 5y ago
      Note "within cycling commute of work". So for a lot of people that means zones 1-2. You would end up paying around what I mentioned for anything decent.
zeaerzerzf 5y ago
Salaries varies a lot in UE, even in the same country if you're working in big cities or small cities that makes a huge difference. In France if you're working in Paris as a Lead you can expect something around 70K/80K but in south of France it's more around 50K/60K.
thorin 5y ago
I'm in Nottingham, but I did work in London many years ago. Recent events may open up work in London for you part remote which if you are keen would allow you to easily double your salary if you have a few years experience. Otherwise salaries are a bit more fluid but if you have 5+ years experience you might be able to add another 10K easily enough. If you are happy where you are and getting good experience consider asking for a raise if you feel undervalued.
Nebasuke 5y ago
I think callahad's post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27913251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27913251) explains it quite well. You're in the first modal distribution of local companies. You can make a big jump making it to a local company that does broader benchmarking, or move to a global company that allows remote work like Twitter (unless you're happy to move near to London of course). My first salary as SWE in UK at a bank had a >50K base (60K total comp), second job in finance was 120K base (135K total), and now Google is >180K total comp. All in GBP. It certainly is possible, but getting into that third modal is probably the hardest bit and will likely involve some leetcode grind and loads of rejected interviews. After your first role, it's relatively smooth smailing (but will still involve leetcode grind every single time).
- ukoki 5y ago
  There is also the "expensive contractor" modal which can easily be in the 150-250k for big corporate clients. For this you don't need leetcode so much as familiarity with enterprise tech stacks -- the more obscure the better; and the patience to navigate your way through frustrating enterprise working practises and policies.
  - ludamad 5y ago
    ... sounds familiar, what's the next modal?
    - ukoki 5y ago
      Next modal leaves school with a BTEC or crappy A-levels because they can't concentrate then gets a job in IT with a local firm and coasts along forever at 15-25k, automating the shit out of everything because although they have the intelligence and attention-to-detail needed to be a programmer, lack of ambition, family, and/or impostor syndrome prevent them from pursuing it as a career path.

mcntsh 5y ago

Digital agencies pay less, since they're often contracted out at competitive rates and they aren't propped up by imaginary investor money. I worked in agencies for most of my career. They're more rewarding to work for, and offer great experiences, but if you want money you have to move into the corporate/startup world.

jstx1 5y ago

> It's difficult to know how hard I should be considering something else Hard - I don't know which city you're in but £32k is low for a senior role anywhere in the UK. In London that's a low salary for a graduate role. I'm similarly disheartened when I read people mentioning that £90-120k salaries are fairly common in London (those numbers seem completely our of reach to me) or when I read about salaries in the US.

agent008t 5y ago
Just curious - what is your annual spend, including paying for somewhere to live? In London, a smallish 2-bed apartment would rent for £2500/month. So around £32000/year just for somewhere to live. Overall, 2 people living in an apartment within cycling commute of work would spend around £60000/year - not being frugal but not exactly living in luxury either.
- mrcartmenez 5y ago
  False. There are over 6500 properties with at least two bedrooms listed for rent on Zoopla for less than £1500per month. https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/property/london/?beds_min=2&price_frequency=per_month&price_max=1500&q=London&results_sort=newest_listings&search_source=home https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/property/london/?beds_min=2... If you don’t have kids, get one of the several thousand one bedroom places listed for less than 1k per month.
  - agent008t 5y ago
    Note "within cycling commute of work". So for a lot of people that means zones 1-2. You would end up paying around what I mentioned for anything decent.

zeaerzerzf 5y ago

Salaries varies a lot in UE, even in the same country if you're working in big cities or small cities that makes a huge difference. In France if you're working in Paris as a Lead you can expect something around 70K/80K but in south of France it's more around 50K/60K.

thorin 5y ago

I'm in Nottingham, but I did work in London many years ago. Recent events may open up work in London for you part remote which if you are keen would allow you to easily double your salary if you have a few years experience. Otherwise salaries are a bit more fluid but if you have 5+ years experience you might be able to add another 10K easily enough. If you are happy where you are and getting good experience consider asking for a raise if you feel undervalued.

Nebasuke 5y ago

I think callahad's post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27913251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27913251) explains it quite well. You're in the first modal distribution of local companies. You can make a big jump making it to a local company that does broader benchmarking, or move to a global company that allows remote work like Twitter (unless you're happy to move near to London of course). My first salary as SWE in UK at a bank had a >50K base (60K total comp), second job in finance was 120K base (135K total), and now Google is >180K total comp. All in GBP. It certainly is possible, but getting into that third modal is probably the hardest bit and will likely involve some leetcode grind and loads of rejected interviews. After your first role, it's relatively smooth smailing (but will still involve leetcode grind every single time).

ukoki 5y ago
There is also the "expensive contractor" modal which can easily be in the 150-250k for big corporate clients. For this you don't need leetcode so much as familiarity with enterprise tech stacks -- the more obscure the better; and the patience to navigate your way through frustrating enterprise working practises and policies.
- ludamad 5y ago
  ... sounds familiar, what's the next modal?
  - ukoki 5y ago
    Next modal leaves school with a BTEC or crappy A-levels because they can't concentrate then gets a job in IT with a local firm and coasts along forever at 15-25k, automating the shit out of everything because although they have the intelligence and attention-to-detail needed to be a programmer, lack of ambition, family, and/or impostor syndrome prevent them from pursuing it as a career path.