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How do other places with dry forested areas deal with this? Are there similar regions from which California should be learning? Also, if we get a major earthqu

by abeppu 5y ago

How do other places with dry forested areas deal with this? Are there similar regions from which California should be learning? Also, if we get a major earthquake, are they going to have to dig all the lines up again? Also, can we just note how crazy it is that this company blew up a neighborhood, burned down a town, was convicted in these separate incidents, and is still allowed to have a monopoly on power for a broad region? Why are corporate convicts apparently treated so well, but natural persons who are convicted are treated so poorly?

anonAndOn 5y ago
Don't forget the company also poisoned an entire town.[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley,_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley,_California
stickfigure 5y ago
Those places burn too. You want electricity, right? PG&E is one way to get it. You could replace the people in charge, you could replace the owners, you could even nationalize the whole thing and you still have the same problem: Vast amounts of incredibly expensive, aging infrastructure, drying climate, and homes built into the wildland boundary interface. There's no magic trick that will solve this problem. The money for electrical upgrades will have to come from taxpayers and/or ratepayers; there isn't anyone else. And it will only reduce the probabilities of big fires. The huge Carr fire in Redding was started by sparks from a towed trailer. The LNU complex last year was lightning (plus one guy trying to cover up a murder with arson). It's not all electrical... probably not even a majority.
- MiguelX413 5y ago
  Just take the money from the profits lol
  - vkou 5y ago
    There won't be any profits if they actually go ahead and fix it. You'd have to claw it back from prior shareholders who benefited from that unethical behaviour.
moistly 5y ago
BC is currently burning to the ground. Again. I don’t think our hydro grid has failed due to forest fires, or at least not commonly. Nor is it responsible for starting them. Our territory must surely be as rugged as California’s. So maybe look North?
triggercut 5y ago
Perth's metropolitan region in Western Australia has the largest percentage of underground power in the world. Granted, a large portion is in suburban areas and I suspect entirely in the distribution network not the transmission network. It's climate is very similar to much of California. Power infrastructure on this magnitude requires an extraordinary amount of capital investment to set up. Who takes on their debt? The operating expenses for asset management and maintenance of a mature network are eyewatering when compared to their underground counterparts as there is a lot more numerous and frequent replacement activity for parts. Pole infrastructure may have a life span of 10-15 years but some parts will be replaced out every 3-5. Before you know it you pay for every pole 4 times over it's life. Now multiply that by several hundred thousand poles in a large network and then you start to get the picture. I'm not trying to be an apologist but I'm surprised from what I hear of American infrastructure that it's not a far more regular occurrence.
- raggles 5y ago
  Your numbers are way out, poles usually last between 25 and 70 years generally depending on what they are made from. Hardware (pins, insulators, crossarms) last at least 15 years usually, often much longer. There is certainly nothing that needs replacing every 3-5 years.
- Denvercoder9 5y ago
  > Perth's metropolitan region in Western Australia has the largest percentage of underground power in the world. I highly doubt that. Their government claims about 55% of houses has underground power. There's parts of Europe where they're easily up to 90%+. For example in the Netherlands only (part of) the high-voltage transmission network is above-ground, all house connections are underground.

by abeppu 5y ago

anonAndOn 5y ago

Don't forget the company also poisoned an entire town.[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley,_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinkley,_California

stickfigure 5y ago

Those places burn too. You want electricity, right? PG&E is one way to get it. You could replace the people in charge, you could replace the owners, you could even nationalize the whole thing and you still have the same problem: Vast amounts of incredibly expensive, aging infrastructure, drying climate, and homes built into the wildland boundary interface. There's no magic trick that will solve this problem. The money for electrical upgrades will have to come from taxpayers and/or ratepayers; there isn't anyone else. And it will only reduce the probabilities of big fires. The huge Carr fire in Redding was started by sparks from a towed trailer. The LNU complex last year was lightning (plus one guy trying to cover up a murder with arson). It's not all electrical... probably not even a majority.

MiguelX413 5y ago
Just take the money from the profits lol
- vkou 5y ago
  There won't be any profits if they actually go ahead and fix it. You'd have to claw it back from prior shareholders who benefited from that unethical behaviour.

moistly 5y ago

BC is currently burning to the ground. Again. I don’t think our hydro grid has failed due to forest fires, or at least not commonly. Nor is it responsible for starting them. Our territory must surely be as rugged as California’s. So maybe look North?

triggercut 5y ago

Perth's metropolitan region in Western Australia has the largest percentage of underground power in the world. Granted, a large portion is in suburban areas and I suspect entirely in the distribution network not the transmission network. It's climate is very similar to much of California. Power infrastructure on this magnitude requires an extraordinary amount of capital investment to set up. Who takes on their debt? The operating expenses for asset management and maintenance of a mature network are eyewatering when compared to their underground counterparts as there is a lot more numerous and frequent replacement activity for parts. Pole infrastructure may have a life span of 10-15 years but some parts will be replaced out every 3-5. Before you know it you pay for every pole 4 times over it's life. Now multiply that by several hundred thousand poles in a large network and then you start to get the picture. I'm not trying to be an apologist but I'm surprised from what I hear of American infrastructure that it's not a far more regular occurrence.

raggles 5y ago
Your numbers are way out, poles usually last between 25 and 70 years generally depending on what they are made from. Hardware (pins, insulators, crossarms) last at least 15 years usually, often much longer. There is certainly nothing that needs replacing every 3-5 years.
Denvercoder9 5y ago
> Perth's metropolitan region in Western Australia has the largest percentage of underground power in the world. I highly doubt that. Their government claims about 55% of houses has underground power. There's parts of Europe where they're easily up to 90%+. For example in the Netherlands only (part of) the high-voltage transmission network is above-ground, all house connections are underground.