4 ms·

And build more than 1/3 or the high speed rail!

adanto6840 5y ago
Is this true (the railway cost)? Which rail specifically, what destinations/points does it service -- any link/source? Not doubting you by any means, just interested in more information. Edit: Ty -- interesting.
- reissbaker 5y ago
  The California HSR: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail
- ardit33 5y ago
  The whole thing is estimated to be around $80-90B (probably more, given the current inflation). With the money already allocated, plus if they had managed not to waste 25B out of that 30B (and the fraud was only 5b), they would have had enough money to get at least half of it done.... Get a major piece of infrastructure done, and help with global warming/emissions goals. But, no. Not in Cali. And that's why nothing gets build. Sheer, Government waste at work... The state is being led by trust-fund babies, that found everything ready, and never had to work for it, and they are just squandering all that fortune.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > The whole thing is estimated to be around $80-90B (probably more, given the current inflation). > With the money already allocated, plus if they had managed not to waste 25B out of that 30B (and the fraud was only 5b), they would have had enough money to get at least half of it done.... Don't projects like this almost always significantly overrun projected costs?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - renewiltord 5y ago
      Oh, they certainly will, and this one will be the mother of them all. Original projections of $33 billion, now up to $100 billion. Tutor Perini (Dianne-Feinstein-related company) will have a field day. You can be a genius investor like Nancy Pelosi or you can be a genius construction company owner like Ms. Feinstein's husband. Either way, California rewards hard work and skill.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    Are concrete pours managed by the mob out there? Curious that the elevated concrete aqueduct is the only thing they’re making progress on.
WalterBright 5y ago
In the Pacific NW, I'd settle for a train that managed to average 60mph. The PNW used to be well served with trains. Now - the government has destroyed most of the right-of-way. What's left is still being destroyed at a rate of maybe 2 miles for every new mile of track laid. They decided the Battery tunnel wasn't good enough anymore. So they dug a new tunnel. What to do with the excavated rubble - why stuff it in the old Battery tunnel, rendering it unusable. The government likes to buy tunnel boring machines. What do they do when finishing a tunnel? Why, the sell the zillion dollar machine for scrap! After all, what spends money faster than buying a new boring machine for the next tunnel!
- toast0 5y ago
  > They decided the Battery tunnel wasn't good enough anymore. So they dug a new tunnel. What to do with the excavated rubble - why stuff it in the old Battery tunnel, rendering it unusable. What did you want done with that tunnel? I think it had earthquake issues separately from the viaduct, and without the viaduct, I'm not sure how useful the tunnel would be anyway. Stuffing it with the rubble reduces the cost of rubble disposal and fills the tunnel without the cost of fill dirt or whatever. The new tunnel is definitely nicer than the old one, but I don't drive around seattle enough to know if it has the same utility. > The government likes to buy tunnel boring machines. What do they do when finishing a tunnel? Why, the sell the zillion dollar machine for scrap! After all, what spends money faster than buying a new boring machine for the next tunnel! I'm not sure how reusable these machines are; they kind of all come in different sizes and have customized needs, and they're hard to store. Can't just leave them halfway through the tunnel for years.... But yeah, Seattle loves tunnels almost as much as Kitsap traffic engineering departments love traffic circles, but Seattle has a bigger budget.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    The claim was that the old Battery tunnel had earthquake issues. I don't believe it would have been more expensive to put a liner in than bore a new tunnel with a liner. What use to put it to? More capacity! Could have run light rail through it. Made it a bike tunnel. Make it a pedestrian mall. The big cost of boring tunnels is the boring machine. At minimum, they could have simply kept right on boring. Doubtless Seattle could use a lot more tunnels for mass transit. Seattle has a terrible right-of-way problem, mainly because they wrecked all the rail right-of-way. I don't see the issue with just storing it at the end of the tunnel. It wouldn't be long before it was clear another tunnel would be needed.

Is this true (the railway cost)? Which rail specifically, what destinations/points does it service -- any link/source? Not doubting you by any means, just interested in more information. Edit: Ty -- interesting.

reissbaker 5y ago
The California HSR: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail
ardit33 5y ago
The whole thing is estimated to be around $80-90B (probably more, given the current inflation). With the money already allocated, plus if they had managed not to waste 25B out of that 30B (and the fraud was only 5b), they would have had enough money to get at least half of it done.... Get a major piece of infrastructure done, and help with global warming/emissions goals. But, no. Not in Cali. And that's why nothing gets build. Sheer, Government waste at work... The state is being led by trust-fund babies, that found everything ready, and never had to work for it, and they are just squandering all that fortune.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > The whole thing is estimated to be around $80-90B (probably more, given the current inflation). > With the money already allocated, plus if they had managed not to waste 25B out of that 30B (and the fraud was only 5b), they would have had enough money to get at least half of it done.... Don't projects like this almost always significantly overrun projected costs?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    Oh, they certainly will, and this one will be the mother of them all. Original projections of $33 billion, now up to $100 billion. Tutor Perini (Dianne-Feinstein-related company) will have a field day. You can be a genius investor like Nancy Pelosi or you can be a genius construction company owner like Ms. Feinstein's husband. Either way, California rewards hard work and skill.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  Are concrete pours managed by the mob out there? Curious that the elevated concrete aqueduct is the only thing they’re making progress on.

WalterBright 5y ago

In the Pacific NW, I'd settle for a train that managed to average 60mph. The PNW used to be well served with trains. Now - the government has destroyed most of the right-of-way. What's left is still being destroyed at a rate of maybe 2 miles for every new mile of track laid. They decided the Battery tunnel wasn't good enough anymore. So they dug a new tunnel. What to do with the excavated rubble - why stuff it in the old Battery tunnel, rendering it unusable. The government likes to buy tunnel boring machines. What do they do when finishing a tunnel? Why, the sell the zillion dollar machine for scrap! After all, what spends money faster than buying a new boring machine for the next tunnel!

toast0 5y ago
> They decided the Battery tunnel wasn't good enough anymore. So they dug a new tunnel. What to do with the excavated rubble - why stuff it in the old Battery tunnel, rendering it unusable. What did you want done with that tunnel? I think it had earthquake issues separately from the viaduct, and without the viaduct, I'm not sure how useful the tunnel would be anyway. Stuffing it with the rubble reduces the cost of rubble disposal and fills the tunnel without the cost of fill dirt or whatever. The new tunnel is definitely nicer than the old one, but I don't drive around seattle enough to know if it has the same utility. > The government likes to buy tunnel boring machines. What do they do when finishing a tunnel? Why, the sell the zillion dollar machine for scrap! After all, what spends money faster than buying a new boring machine for the next tunnel! I'm not sure how reusable these machines are; they kind of all come in different sizes and have customized needs, and they're hard to store. Can't just leave them halfway through the tunnel for years.... But yeah, Seattle loves tunnels almost as much as Kitsap traffic engineering departments love traffic circles, but Seattle has a bigger budget.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  The claim was that the old Battery tunnel had earthquake issues. I don't believe it would have been more expensive to put a liner in than bore a new tunnel with a liner. What use to put it to? More capacity! Could have run light rail through it. Made it a bike tunnel. Make it a pedestrian mall. The big cost of boring tunnels is the boring machine. At minimum, they could have simply kept right on boring. Doubtless Seattle could use a lot more tunnels for mass transit. Seattle has a terrible right-of-way problem, mainly because they wrecked all the rail right-of-way. I don't see the issue with just storing it at the end of the tunnel. It wouldn't be long before it was clear another tunnel would be needed.