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However, Amnesty is now clarifying, this is not the meaning of the list. "Amnesty International has never presented this list as a 'NSO Pegasus Spyware List', a

by msravi 5y ago

However, Amnesty is now clarifying, this is not the meaning of the list. "Amnesty International has never presented this list as a 'NSO Pegasus Spyware List', although some of the world's media may have done so," the organization said in a statement released Wednesday. and 37 phone calls from journalists and human rights activists, on which forensic evidence was found that was pasted in Pegasus or was the target of the spyware. So of the list of 50000 phone numbers 37 had evidence of Pegasus. And no one knows where the list of 50000 came from.

throwaway4good 5y ago
Where is the list? Is it public or just being dripped to select journalists?
- mike_d 5y ago
  A group of ~30 media organizations has access to it.
  - throwaway4good 5y ago
    It reminds me of the difference between Snowden and Assange. Snowden gave his material to a select group of journalists who carefully wrote articles and curated the information to be released whereas Assange would just publish the raw material.
    - mike_d 5y ago
      Snowden was also pretty careless in how he handled the stolen data. Both Russia and China have obtained and decrypted the files, putting American and allied spies and agents at personal risk. It is unclear if Snowden enabled this, or simply underestimated how big of an espionage target he and the journalists would become.
- rognjen 5y ago
  It's not being dripped to journalists. They got the entire list and are releasing more prominent names in batches.
klyrs 5y ago
> authors of the study also performed an in-depth laboratory analysis of 67 telephones included in this list. The investigation revealed that more than half of them, 37 telephones, found evidence of the activity of the Israeli spyware. Yes, 37 out of 67 that they got their hands on. They clearly didn't have the other 50k phones on hand to test.
anfelor 5y ago
"The authors of the study also performed an in-depth laboratory analysis of 67 telephones included in this list. The investigation revealed that more than half of them, 37 phones, found evidence of the activity of the Israeli Spyware" So assuming that their sample is representative that would be 28906/50000 phones with Spyware on them. "Amnesty, and the investigative journalists and media outlets they work with made it clear from the outset in very clear language that this is a list of numbers marked as numbers of interest to NSO customers" .. and that is the real scandal. Even if Pegasus didn't actually hack eg Macrons iPhone, a spying company in a democratic state should not have his phone number. Of course, it could have been added to the list by the whistleblower, but the time when it was supposedly added (before a major conference with Marocco) and all the other numbers from his cabinet make this unlikely (what kind of whistleblower just knows phone numbers from powerful people around the world?)
- fmajid 5y ago
  That was President Macron's personal number, which he freely gave to journalists before being elected. He is very tech-savvy and security-conscious, having been the target of Putin's election interference (Putin was trying to get the far-right candidate Marine Le Pen elected, just as he has supported the far-right AfD party in Germany), but his party had a better response than most because he had appointed tech entrepreneur Mounir Mahjoubi to lead its cybersecurity. For classified or state business, he has a special Samsung Galaxy S7 with modified firmware and an older specialized flip-phone from Thalès called Teorem: https://blog.ercom.com/this-is-the-ultra-secure-smartphone-used-by-emmanuel-macron/ https://blog.ercom.com/this-is-the-ultra-secure-smartphone-u... https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/teorem-le-telephone-ultra-securise-de-thales.N159462 https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/teorem-le-telephone-ul... Now, if his iPhone were compromised, its microphones could be activated to listen in on his conversations. The French cybersecurity authorities are competent and it's highly unlikely they haven't planned for this, specially when they know the US eavesdropped on Angela Merkel's phone and France would be a higher-priority target for the US government given its sometimes ornery relationship. Their threat model certainly includes far more capable nation-state actors and capabilities than the watered-down version Israel will allow to be sold to Morocco, Saudi Arabia or any other tinpot country willing to pay.

by msravi 5y ago

throwaway4good 5y ago

Where is the list? Is it public or just being dripped to select journalists?

mike_d 5y ago
A group of ~30 media organizations has access to it.
- throwaway4good 5y ago
  It reminds me of the difference between Snowden and Assange. Snowden gave his material to a select group of journalists who carefully wrote articles and curated the information to be released whereas Assange would just publish the raw material.
  - mike_d 5y ago
    Snowden was also pretty careless in how he handled the stolen data. Both Russia and China have obtained and decrypted the files, putting American and allied spies and agents at personal risk. It is unclear if Snowden enabled this, or simply underestimated how big of an espionage target he and the journalists would become.
rognjen 5y ago
It's not being dripped to journalists. They got the entire list and are releasing more prominent names in batches.

klyrs 5y ago

> authors of the study also performed an in-depth laboratory analysis of 67 telephones included in this list. The investigation revealed that more than half of them, 37 telephones, found evidence of the activity of the Israeli spyware. Yes, 37 out of 67 that they got their hands on. They clearly didn't have the other 50k phones on hand to test.

anfelor 5y ago

"The authors of the study also performed an in-depth laboratory analysis of 67 telephones included in this list. The investigation revealed that more than half of them, 37 phones, found evidence of the activity of the Israeli Spyware" So assuming that their sample is representative that would be 28906/50000 phones with Spyware on them. "Amnesty, and the investigative journalists and media outlets they work with made it clear from the outset in very clear language that this is a list of numbers marked as numbers of interest to NSO customers" .. and that is the real scandal. Even if Pegasus didn't actually hack eg Macrons iPhone, a spying company in a democratic state should not have his phone number. Of course, it could have been added to the list by the whistleblower, but the time when it was supposedly added (before a major conference with Marocco) and all the other numbers from his cabinet make this unlikely (what kind of whistleblower just knows phone numbers from powerful people around the world?)

fmajid 5y ago
That was President Macron's personal number, which he freely gave to journalists before being elected. He is very tech-savvy and security-conscious, having been the target of Putin's election interference (Putin was trying to get the far-right candidate Marine Le Pen elected, just as he has supported the far-right AfD party in Germany), but his party had a better response than most because he had appointed tech entrepreneur Mounir Mahjoubi to lead its cybersecurity. For classified or state business, he has a special Samsung Galaxy S7 with modified firmware and an older specialized flip-phone from Thalès called Teorem: https://blog.ercom.com/this-is-the-ultra-secure-smartphone-used-by-emmanuel-macron/ https://blog.ercom.com/this-is-the-ultra-secure-smartphone-u... https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/teorem-le-telephone-ultra-securise-de-thales.N159462 https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/teorem-le-telephone-ul... Now, if his iPhone were compromised, its microphones could be activated to listen in on his conversations. The French cybersecurity authorities are competent and it's highly unlikely they haven't planned for this, specially when they know the US eavesdropped on Angela Merkel's phone and France would be a higher-priority target for the US government given its sometimes ornery relationship. Their threat model certainly includes far more capable nation-state actors and capabilities than the watered-down version Israel will allow to be sold to Morocco, Saudi Arabia or any other tinpot country willing to pay.