3 ms·

Everything starts with a “simple ask”. If it’s so small and simple, then why are we being fought tooth-and-nail over it? There is no consensus either, outside

Everything starts with a “simple ask”. If it’s so small and simple, then why are we being fought tooth-and-nail over it? There is no consensus either, outside of a small minority. Prior to 2012, custom pronouns would have had you laughed out of the room. You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works.

wyldfire 5y ago
> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. In fact I think it actually does. In the last century this kind of thing has happened many times. One phenomenon is the way we refer to people who have intellectual disabilities. Sometimes it's called the Euphemism treadmill - as clinical names are created to describe a problem, they get used as a pejorative and the clinical name is now associated with the pejorative use. New clinical names are created without this association and on it goes - idiot, moron, retarded, slow, special needs, etc. Also, minorities have sought to redefine how they're described. Negro, black, African American. Oriental, Asian. Natural languages reflect their usage. So it's normal for popular usage of language to change how we speak. Some of those changes are incidental and some are deliberate - the result of a social campaign.
thebooktocome 5y ago
> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. I don't particularly care about rehashing the ethics of preferred pronouns right now, but what you've described is exactly how language works. You might look into why standard practice moved away from capitalizing nouns in the 19th century.
- wyldfire 5y ago
  Deutsch is keeping the faith in the twenty first century!
  - vmception 5y ago
    Not only on capitalized pronouns but heavily intrinsically gendered language! English is like easy mode for inclusion.
- neolog 5y ago
  > why standard practice moved away from capitalizing nouns in the 19th century. I can't find any reason on google. Got a link?
FormhellFrom 5y ago
> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. you literally do and that’s literally how language works. You are free to disagree with these new definitions, and in turn people are free to show you the door, just like what occurred in the post above. (What’s the alternative? Words are given a fixed definition at their conception? Who gives these definitions?)
- jimbob45 5y ago
  The alternative is that linguistic preferences aren't forced upon others?
  - FormhellFrom 5y ago
    Ok, then where does the meaning of a given word come from? It comes from somewhere. If not from consensus, then where? this is all unfortunately very far from the original argument, which is that it takes no effort to just use whatever pronoun is asked for. It’s no different than when someone named Thomas says “please call me Tom.” Do you jump up on the table and start citing Bible verses about the perils of falsehoods, or do you just fucking call the guy Tom?
sircastor 5y ago
I'll throw another counter-example in the pot here: 'Literally' has come to mean (in modern parlance) both literally and figuratively. You can disagree and push back against the use and abuse of a word, but language and the use of language will continue to change with or without you.

wyldfire 5y ago

> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. In fact I think it actually does. In the last century this kind of thing has happened many times. One phenomenon is the way we refer to people who have intellectual disabilities. Sometimes it's called the Euphemism treadmill - as clinical names are created to describe a problem, they get used as a pejorative and the clinical name is now associated with the pejorative use. New clinical names are created without this association and on it goes - idiot, moron, retarded, slow, special needs, etc. Also, minorities have sought to redefine how they're described. Negro, black, African American. Oriental, Asian. Natural languages reflect their usage. So it's normal for popular usage of language to change how we speak. Some of those changes are incidental and some are deliberate - the result of a social campaign.

thebooktocome 5y ago

> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. I don't particularly care about rehashing the ethics of preferred pronouns right now, but what you've described is exactly how language works. You might look into why standard practice moved away from capitalizing nouns in the 19th century.

wyldfire 5y ago
Deutsch is keeping the faith in the twenty first century!
- vmception 5y ago
  Not only on capitalized pronouns but heavily intrinsically gendered language! English is like easy mode for inclusion.
neolog 5y ago
> why standard practice moved away from capitalizing nouns in the 19th century. I can't find any reason on google. Got a link?

FormhellFrom 5y ago

> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. you literally do and that’s literally how language works. You are free to disagree with these new definitions, and in turn people are free to show you the door, just like what occurred in the post above. (What’s the alternative? Words are given a fixed definition at their conception? Who gives these definitions?)

jimbob45 5y ago
The alternative is that linguistic preferences aren't forced upon others?
- FormhellFrom 5y ago
  Ok, then where does the meaning of a given word come from? It comes from somewhere. If not from consensus, then where? this is all unfortunately very far from the original argument, which is that it takes no effort to just use whatever pronoun is asked for. It’s no different than when someone named Thomas says “please call me Tom.” Do you jump up on the table and start citing Bible verses about the perils of falsehoods, or do you just fucking call the guy Tom?

sircastor 5y ago

I'll throw another counter-example in the pot here: 'Literally' has come to mean (in modern parlance) both literally and figuratively. You can disagree and push back against the use and abuse of a word, but language and the use of language will continue to change with or without you.