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For those having trouble with this, the consensus within inclusionary groups in the US is that sex and gender are separate concepts. Meaning that males can be r

For those having trouble with this, the consensus within inclusionary groups in the US is that sex and gender are separate concepts. Meaning that males can be recognized as males and females as females, no matter what their pronouns are, as that is sex. Gender is not intrinsically tied to those, so gendered words like “man, woman” and “he, she” can be dynamic and up to the individual to identify as. The consensus on this may seem confusing because other English speaking countries have not necessarily adopted this clear separation, within trans communities or areas willing to be inclusive. So on the internet, a lot of discussion on these topics gets mixed up with exclusionary as well as simply Commonwealth residents versions of how to be inclusive. The general recognition is that people are able to be productive members of society by simply saying their desired pronouns. Even when “they” adds an additional context as a singular form which didnt exist prior, or when “xie” didnt previously exist as an English word. It is such a simple ask with massive productivity leverage that people are willing to do it. It would not be a lie, when separating sex from gender.

redis_mlc 5y ago
> the consensus in the US is that sex and gender are separate concepts. Stop lying. That is not the consensus in the US, aside from woke SJWs like yourself.
- vmception 5y ago
  Within inclusionary communities it is a prevailing consensus. It makes it make sense and is very benign for everyone else to accomodate.
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    > Within inclusionary communities it is a prevailing consensus. So ... woke SJWs, as I said. It doesn't make sense unless you're attempting to virtue signal: 1) Other people are not obligated to accommodate what your personal preferences are, especially at their expense. 2) The actual goal behind SJW crusades like pronouns, CRT, BLM, radical feminism, etc. is Marxism - to overturn the existing society to build another structure under the control of Marxist leaders. Only 0.6% of the US population is trans - why does 99.4% of the population need to accommodate them, at the expense of those 99.4%? Educate yourself on what matters (first 60 seconds says what BLM should be doing): "Comedian tells Tucker Carlson his take on identity politics" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR7nJutI5iI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR7nJutI5iI
jimbob45 5y ago
Everything starts with a “simple ask”. If it’s so small and simple, then why are we being fought tooth-and-nail over it? There is no consensus either, outside of a small minority. Prior to 2012, custom pronouns would have had you laughed out of the room. You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works.
- wyldfire 5y ago
  > You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. In fact I think it actually does. In the last century this kind of thing has happened many times. One phenomenon is the way we refer to people who have intellectual disabilities. Sometimes it's called the Euphemism treadmill - as clinical names are created to describe a problem, they get used as a pejorative and the clinical name is now associated with the pejorative use. New clinical names are created without this association and on it goes - idiot, moron, retarded, slow, special needs, etc. Also, minorities have sought to redefine how they're described. Negro, black, African American. Oriental, Asian. Natural languages reflect their usage. So it's normal for popular usage of language to change how we speak. Some of those changes are incidental and some are deliberate - the result of a social campaign.
- thebooktocome 5y ago
  > You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. I don't particularly care about rehashing the ethics of preferred pronouns right now, but what you've described is exactly how language works. You might look into why standard practice moved away from capitalizing nouns in the 19th century.
  - wyldfire 5y ago
    Deutsch is keeping the faith in the twenty first century!
    - vmception 5y ago
sascha_sl 5y ago
Also, HRT changes many of the factors we simplify to “sex”, based on it changing all sex-based gene expression. So while you can’t literally change to “the other” sex these people rather exist outside the simplified classification. Not that anyone but your doctor should care.

redis_mlc 5y ago

> the consensus in the US is that sex and gender are separate concepts. Stop lying. That is not the consensus in the US, aside from woke SJWs like yourself.

vmception 5y ago
Within inclusionary communities it is a prevailing consensus. It makes it make sense and is very benign for everyone else to accomodate.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  > Within inclusionary communities it is a prevailing consensus. So ... woke SJWs, as I said. It doesn't make sense unless you're attempting to virtue signal: 1) Other people are not obligated to accommodate what your personal preferences are, especially at their expense. 2) The actual goal behind SJW crusades like pronouns, CRT, BLM, radical feminism, etc. is Marxism - to overturn the existing society to build another structure under the control of Marxist leaders. Only 0.6% of the US population is trans - why does 99.4% of the population need to accommodate them, at the expense of those 99.4%? Educate yourself on what matters (first 60 seconds says what BLM should be doing): "Comedian tells Tucker Carlson his take on identity politics" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR7nJutI5iI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR7nJutI5iI

jimbob45 5y ago

Everything starts with a “simple ask”. If it’s so small and simple, then why are we being fought tooth-and-nail over it? There is no consensus either, outside of a small minority. Prior to 2012, custom pronouns would have had you laughed out of the room. You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works.

wyldfire 5y ago
> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. In fact I think it actually does. In the last century this kind of thing has happened many times. One phenomenon is the way we refer to people who have intellectual disabilities. Sometimes it's called the Euphemism treadmill - as clinical names are created to describe a problem, they get used as a pejorative and the clinical name is now associated with the pejorative use. New clinical names are created without this association and on it goes - idiot, moron, retarded, slow, special needs, etc. Also, minorities have sought to redefine how they're described. Negro, black, African American. Oriental, Asian. Natural languages reflect their usage. So it's normal for popular usage of language to change how we speak. Some of those changes are incidental and some are deliberate - the result of a social campaign.
thebooktocome 5y ago
> You don’t get to redefine language and force your linguistic preferences on others. That’s not how language works. I don't particularly care about rehashing the ethics of preferred pronouns right now, but what you've described is exactly how language works. You might look into why standard practice moved away from capitalizing nouns in the 19th century.
- wyldfire 5y ago
  Deutsch is keeping the faith in the twenty first century!
  - vmception 5y ago

sascha_sl 5y ago

Also, HRT changes many of the factors we simplify to “sex”, based on it changing all sex-based gene expression. So while you can’t literally change to “the other” sex these people rather exist outside the simplified classification. Not that anyone but your doctor should care.