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My impression of the history of the "Noah's flood" story is that mythologists tend to trace it back to the origin of civilization in the fertile crescent, a his

My impression of the history of the "Noah's flood" story is that mythologists tend to trace it back to the origin of civilization in the fertile crescent, a historic flood plain. Specifically, there are very strong parallels between it and the Gilgamesh flood myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_flood_myth

colordrops 5y ago
That doesn't account for the fact that nearly every major culture and region on earth has a flood myth.
- dboreham 5y ago
  Curious if we know for sure that every culture doesn't descend in part from inhabitants of the fertile crescent.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    Humans first arrived in east Asia 2.1 million years ago, and modern humans arrived there at least 80,000 years ago. The fertile crescent civilization formed about 11,000 years ago, and some flood accounts, as well as some geological evidence, date the floods at about 12,000 years ago.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup#/media/File:Human_migrations_and_mitochondrial_haplogroups.PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup#/media/File:Human_m... The modern humans that went to Asia largely stuck to the cost, and started on that route some millennia earlier than the modern humans that settled the Levant. Pre modern humans took that route far earlier, and there's growing evidence our ancestor and cousin species preceded them on it.
- jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
  The reason for that is banal: the vast majority of humans chose to live near a water source, if not the coast. That's still true today, but was overwhelmingly true in prehistoric times.
divbzero 5y ago
Gilgamesh or Noah’s flood could also be related to the Black Sea deluge hypothesis [1] though the existence and scale of that event is still being debated. On the other side of the planet and more established as fact are the Missoula floods [2] across what is now the Columbia River Gorge. Altogether, it does not surprise me that tales of great floods appear in cultures across the world. It could well be that they relate to different geological events around the world. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_floods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_floods
- Ccecil 5y ago
  I live in the Purcell trench...where the Missoula floods passed through :) You can clearly see in some areas where the smaller hills and mountains kinda look like "islands" and we have a very nice aquifer due to it. And yes...supposedly the native tribes which were in the path all the way down the Columbia have stories about it. https://www.spokaneaquifer.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AquiferAtlas.pdf https://www.spokaneaquifer.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Aq...
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Any that were actually in the path washed out to sea. But anybody within hundreds of miles would have heard it. The Columbia River Gorge was carved out in two weeks.
    - kbenson 5y ago
      > The Columbia River Gorge was carved out in two weeks. This seemed interesting, so I looked into it, and I'm seeing multiple sources saying it was many floods over a few millennia (with one large initial one from Lake Missoula). About 1800 years ago, the Columbia Basin became flooded when an ice dam broke at Lake MIssoula in Western Montana. This lake help approximately 600 cubic miles of water. Boulders were tossed around the outlet of the break. Others were carried in icebergs as far as Western Oregon towards the Pacific Ocean. The water flowed at appoximately 60mph. It is believed that it took 2-3 days for this water to drain. During a period of 2500 years, there were believed to be as many as 100 floods that scoured the Gorge area. These were some of the largest documented floods occuring on the planet and in geological history.[1] The 1800 is likely supposed to be 18,000 years ago, as this other link says essentially the same thing but at the time brame of 18,000 - 15,000 years ago.[2] That said, neither source their facts well, so it's not out of the question that one is using the other or they are using some other source, and they are wrong and referencing wrong information in a chain, so I would consider a reputable source one way or the other as more definitive. 1: http://www.gorgeconnection.com/how-the-gorge-was-formed.php http://www.gorgeconnection.com/how-the-gorge-was-formed.php 2: https://www.pdxmonthly.com/travel-and-outdoors/2012/05/gorge-timeline-june-2012 https://www.pdxmonthly.com/travel-and-outdoors/2012/05/gorge...
ncmncm 5y ago
The Noah story is very obviously cribbed from Utnapishtim. But that takes us back only 6000 years.The seas started rising 20kya, with bursts in periods up to 8kya, when the Persian gulf river valley finally filled in. The Flood was a worldwide series of events throughout that time. The Fertile Crescent has been important for barely the last 13,000.

colordrops 5y ago

That doesn't account for the fact that nearly every major culture and region on earth has a flood myth.

dboreham 5y ago
Curious if we know for sure that every culture doesn't descend in part from inhabitants of the fertile crescent.
- colordrops 5y ago
  Humans first arrived in east Asia 2.1 million years ago, and modern humans arrived there at least 80,000 years ago. The fertile crescent civilization formed about 11,000 years ago, and some flood accounts, as well as some geological evidence, date the floods at about 12,000 years ago.
- jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup#/media/File:Human_migrations_and_mitochondrial_haplogroups.PNG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup#/media/File:Human_m... The modern humans that went to Asia largely stuck to the cost, and started on that route some millennia earlier than the modern humans that settled the Levant. Pre modern humans took that route far earlier, and there's growing evidence our ancestor and cousin species preceded them on it.
jasonwatkinspdx 5y ago
The reason for that is banal: the vast majority of humans chose to live near a water source, if not the coast. That's still true today, but was overwhelmingly true in prehistoric times.

divbzero 5y ago

Gilgamesh or Noah’s flood could also be related to the Black Sea deluge hypothesis [1] though the existence and scale of that event is still being debated. On the other side of the planet and more established as fact are the Missoula floods [2] across what is now the Columbia River Gorge. Altogether, it does not surprise me that tales of great floods appear in cultures across the world. It could well be that they relate to different geological events around the world. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_floods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_floods

Ccecil 5y ago
I live in the Purcell trench...where the Missoula floods passed through :) You can clearly see in some areas where the smaller hills and mountains kinda look like "islands" and we have a very nice aquifer due to it. And yes...supposedly the native tribes which were in the path all the way down the Columbia have stories about it. https://www.spokaneaquifer.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/AquiferAtlas.pdf https://www.spokaneaquifer.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Aq...
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Any that were actually in the path washed out to sea. But anybody within hundreds of miles would have heard it. The Columbia River Gorge was carved out in two weeks.
  - kbenson 5y ago
    > The Columbia River Gorge was carved out in two weeks. This seemed interesting, so I looked into it, and I'm seeing multiple sources saying it was many floods over a few millennia (with one large initial one from Lake Missoula). About 1800 years ago, the Columbia Basin became flooded when an ice dam broke at Lake MIssoula in Western Montana. This lake help approximately 600 cubic miles of water. Boulders were tossed around the outlet of the break. Others were carried in icebergs as far as Western Oregon towards the Pacific Ocean. The water flowed at appoximately 60mph. It is believed that it took 2-3 days for this water to drain. During a period of 2500 years, there were believed to be as many as 100 floods that scoured the Gorge area. These were some of the largest documented floods occuring on the planet and in geological history.[1] The 1800 is likely supposed to be 18,000 years ago, as this other link says essentially the same thing but at the time brame of 18,000 - 15,000 years ago.[2] That said, neither source their facts well, so it's not out of the question that one is using the other or they are using some other source, and they are wrong and referencing wrong information in a chain, so I would consider a reputable source one way or the other as more definitive. 1: http://www.gorgeconnection.com/how-the-gorge-was-formed.php http://www.gorgeconnection.com/how-the-gorge-was-formed.php 2: https://www.pdxmonthly.com/travel-and-outdoors/2012/05/gorge-timeline-june-2012 https://www.pdxmonthly.com/travel-and-outdoors/2012/05/gorge...

ncmncm 5y ago

The Noah story is very obviously cribbed from Utnapishtim. But that takes us back only 6000 years.The seas started rising 20kya, with bursts in periods up to 8kya, when the Persian gulf river valley finally filled in. The Flood was a worldwide series of events throughout that time. The Fertile Crescent has been important for barely the last 13,000.