4 ms·

I'm not in Berlin, but The Netherlands, which is probably similar. Most senior positions are around 50-80k, but there are a few over 100k. However if you're wi

I'm not in Berlin, but The Netherlands, which is probably similar. Most senior positions are around 50-80k, but there are a few over 100k. However if you're willing to do contracting you can make a lot more - there are plenty of full-time, long-term gigs with rates of 80-110/hour.

omgwtfbbq 5y ago
You can nearly triple your pay by contracting?
theodric 5y ago
Jesus, that's depressing. 13 years ago I, 25, got a medior infra syseng role in Amsterdam at €70k and 30% ruling, net €4k. The market collapsed during the crisis and never came back.
- Aboh33 5y ago
  Yeah and the positions also keep getting bunched together with no end in sight. I suspect in the future we will see postings such as DevQASecMLOps and salaries will bump up nominally
callahad 5y ago
For the Netherlands, Gergely Orosz recently published an interesting article titled "The Trimodal Nature of Software Engineering Salaries in the Netherlands and Europe" at https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala... It's a worthwhile read, but this bit from the start is notable: > The 2019 Honeypot Amsterdam developer survey says, "the most experienced developers earn an average of €55,000 high as over €70,000". The 2021 Talent.io salary report puts the most experienced software engineering salaries in Amsterdam at €60,000/year. Meanwhile, I've observed the average senior total compensation figures at Uber nearly double from €110,000 in 2015 to €170,000-€230,000/year by 2020. It's not just Uber: Booking.com senior total packages have gone up by 50% from around €100,000 in 2016 to €150,000+, as part of the EU salary research I've been running
908B64B197 5y ago
On an annual basis I know internships that pay more than that. But seriously, that's base rate. What's the stock compensation and bonus structure?
- username90 5y ago
  Most jobs doesn't offer significant bonus or stock. Even in USA most don't.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    That's a red flag.
    - gumby 5y ago
      I read that it is illegal in Germany.
      - nickcox 5y ago
        Not to offer a bonus or equity?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        gumby 5y ago
        I don’t believe options are legal compensation. In the US RSUs are becoming more common than they used to be for startups and something like that might be OK.
        icythere 5y ago
        That's bad for Germany. They are gonna change [1]? I've seen a few company has stock options already. One of my friends has. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/germany-to-reform-stock-option-rules-in-effort-to-rival-silicon-valley.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/germany-to-reform-stock-opti...
cosmodisk 5y ago
It's crazy... I'm already seeing similar salary ranges in Baltics, which aren't nowhere near as expensive as The Netherlands...
bruce343434 5y ago
Contracting has its own caveats like no pension, and no sick pay.
- himlion 5y ago
  It's still a MUCH better deal in the Netherlands.

omgwtfbbq 5y ago

You can nearly triple your pay by contracting?

theodric 5y ago

Jesus, that's depressing. 13 years ago I, 25, got a medior infra syseng role in Amsterdam at €70k and 30% ruling, net €4k. The market collapsed during the crisis and never came back.

Aboh33 5y ago
Yeah and the positions also keep getting bunched together with no end in sight. I suspect in the future we will see postings such as DevQASecMLOps and salaries will bump up nominally

callahad 5y ago

For the Netherlands, Gergely Orosz recently published an interesting article titled "The Trimodal Nature of Software Engineering Salaries in the Netherlands and Europe" at https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/ https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala... It's a worthwhile read, but this bit from the start is notable: > The 2019 Honeypot Amsterdam developer survey says, "the most experienced developers earn an average of €55,000 high as over €70,000". The 2021 Talent.io salary report puts the most experienced software engineering salaries in Amsterdam at €60,000/year. Meanwhile, I've observed the average senior total compensation figures at Uber nearly double from €110,000 in 2015 to €170,000-€230,000/year by 2020. It's not just Uber: Booking.com senior total packages have gone up by 50% from around €100,000 in 2016 to €150,000+, as part of the EU salary research I've been running

908B64B197 5y ago

On an annual basis I know internships that pay more than that. But seriously, that's base rate. What's the stock compensation and bonus structure?

username90 5y ago
Most jobs doesn't offer significant bonus or stock. Even in USA most don't.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  That's a red flag.
  - gumby 5y ago
    I read that it is illegal in Germany.
    - nickcox 5y ago
      Not to offer a bonus or equity?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - gumby 5y ago
        I don’t believe options are legal compensation. In the US RSUs are becoming more common than they used to be for startups and something like that might be OK.
        icythere 5y ago
        That's bad for Germany. They are gonna change [1]? I've seen a few company has stock options already. One of my friends has. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/germany-to-reform-stock-option-rules-in-effort-to-rival-silicon-valley.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/germany-to-reform-stock-opti...

cosmodisk 5y ago

It's crazy... I'm already seeing similar salary ranges in Baltics, which aren't nowhere near as expensive as The Netherlands...

bruce343434 5y ago

Contracting has its own caveats like no pension, and no sick pay.

himlion 5y ago
It's still a MUCH better deal in the Netherlands.