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The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.” And: “It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an iPhone.” >

by zepto 5y ago

The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.” And: “It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an iPhone.” > The original comment as it stands is fine. Don't expect to be able to interpret it on different terms than the way it was meant to be understood. The comment is complete bullshit in this context. > instead of what it was, which is a statement about HCI and the "implicit step zero" of software creation on today's commodity computing devices. This is simply not true. The comment was a response to a thread. You have made up a context in which it makes sense out of whole cloth. You can see the comment wasn’t meant in this narrow context because the poster defended it by saying ‘superior in what way?’, rather than by clarifying the context in which it might be valid. I miss the days when there was an instant on programmable device. We need that again. It would be great if iPhones shipped with Swift playgrounds as a pre-installed app for example. Swift playgrounds shipping on iPhone sounds a lot like the “I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation.” So does Pythonista. But a ti-84 is not easier to program than an iPhone, except for in the trivial sense that you can skip a few taps needed to install a programming app. Other than that, the ti is strictly worse. I agree calculators are a good way to learn a limited form of programming, however Apps definitely better. If you want to quibble over the ease of installing an app vs purchasing a calculator, that’s a sideshow to the value of learning python vs ti-84 programming. The irony is that the biggest obstacle to the iPhone being easy to program is people saying it’s hard to program rather than saying ‘use Pythonista’ or the like.

cxr 5y ago
> The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.” It's not. You are ignoring the place in the thread where the comment appears. No one has argued that learning TI Basic is more worthwhile than learning HTML, JS, and CSS (or Python) on a mobile phone. No one has argued for advising someone that they should be "getting a job if you only know how to program a TI-84". The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone. > made up a context in which it makes sense out of whole cloth Wrong, and posting another comment trying to argue your uncharitable take won't make it correct or reasonable. Go pick a fight and declare that the pushback you encounter is "bullshit" somewhere else. This is stupid.
- zepto 5y ago
  > The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone. That just isn’t the claim made. Again you just have just made something up. Let’s copy and paste the claim and take a look: “I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation. It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an iPhone. Why can’t this be better?” It turns out that it isn’t what you said it was. As for picking a fight, you seem to be the only one doing that here. You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context. Prior to that we were discussing the merits of calculators and phones for programming. You might not like the content, but there were no personal attacks before you brought them here.
  - cxr 5y ago
    This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is? > I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation. Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program". > You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context. The lack of self-awareness here is staggering. (What personal attack of mine is that, by the way? Be specific. Can you quote it?)
    - zepto 5y ago
      > This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is? Nobody is talking about hello world programs except you. That’s the point. > Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program". ‘to write a minimal program’ was added in a later comment from the claim in response to my point about the iPhone being superior, as perhaps the one example of why the TI might be easier to program. It doesn’t define the issue - it’s just one thing that the commenter was trying to argue was better about the TI. I don’t even think it’s true. Firing up Pythonista and writing hello world is very straightforward. Doing the same on a TI-89 is not actually simpler. The process is in fact very similar. > What personal attack of mine is that, by the way? Be specific. Can you quote it? “…trying to argue your uncharitable take….” “…Go pick a fight and declare that the pushback you encounter is "bullshit" somewhere else…” “…This is stupid…” “…The lack of self-awareness here is staggering…”

by zepto 5y ago

cxr 5y ago

> The context is: “Nepalese student learns HTML, JavaScript, CSS using just a mobile phone.” It's not. You are ignoring the place in the thread where the comment appears. No one has argued that learning TI Basic is more worthwhile than learning HTML, JS, and CSS (or Python) on a mobile phone. No one has argued for advising someone that they should be "getting a job if you only know how to program a TI-84". The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone. > made up a context in which it makes sense out of whole cloth Wrong, and posting another comment trying to argue your uncharitable take won't make it correct or reasonable. Go pick a fight and declare that the pushback you encounter is "bullshit" somewhere else. This is stupid.

zepto 5y ago
> The claim is strictly that going from 0 to hello world is easier on a calculator than it is on an iPhone. That just isn’t the claim made. Again you just have just made something up. Let’s copy and paste the claim and take a look: “I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation. It’s easier to program a TI-89 calculator than an iPhone. Why can’t this be better?” It turns out that it isn’t what you said it was. As for picking a fight, you seem to be the only one doing that here. You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context. Prior to that we were discussing the merits of calculators and phones for programming. You might not like the content, but there were no personal attacks before you brought them here.
- cxr 5y ago
  This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is? > I wish there was something akin to TI-Basic for smartphones. A built-in IDE with an interpreted language, with easy path to compilation. Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program". > You chose to reply to a comment that wasn’t a reply to you to make a personal attack based on an inaccurate rendering of the context. The lack of self-awareness here is staggering. (What personal attack of mine is that, by the way? Be specific. Can you quote it?)
  - zepto 5y ago
    > This fight has now moved on to a dispute about what a hello world program is? Nobody is talking about hello world programs except you. That’s the point. > Right. A "built-in IDE". To "write a minimal program". ‘to write a minimal program’ was added in a later comment from the claim in response to my point about the iPhone being superior, as perhaps the one example of why the TI might be easier to program. It doesn’t define the issue - it’s just one thing that the commenter was trying to argue was better about the TI. I don’t even think it’s true. Firing up Pythonista and writing hello world is very straightforward. Doing the same on a TI-89 is not actually simpler. The process is in fact very similar. > What personal attack of mine is that, by the way? Be specific. Can you quote it? “…trying to argue your uncharitable take….” “…Go pick a fight and declare that the pushback you encounter is "bullshit" somewhere else…” “…This is stupid…” “…The lack of self-awareness here is staggering…”