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Personally, I'm too confused to be even cynical about it. I don't know anything about Van Jones other than what I see on TV, but that by itself cannot explain w

Personally, I'm too confused to be even cynical about it. I don't know anything about Van Jones other than what I see on TV, but that by itself cannot explain why Bezos felt he deserved the "award".

chroem- 5y ago
Previously he's been known for being openly communist (i.e. not just a regular socialist). As an aside, I still find it odd how we've rightfully shunned other totalitarian and mass murdering political ideologies, but we've completely whitewashed communism. I couldn't imagine another newscaster openly identifying as a nazi.
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  The difference is that communism is an economic idea, which was used by regimes that did brutal things. Whereas the Nazi ideology drove the violence. In one case, it was correlated. In another, causative.
  - chroem- 5y ago
    A core tenet of communist ideology is violent overthrow of democratic governments to implement a "dictatorship of the proletariat". Both are rooted in violence.
    - edmundsauto 5y ago
      Aren't democracy and communism orthogonal? Admittedly, I'm not a scholar, but it seems to me that democracy is mostly concerned w/ how leaders are chosen. Whereas communism is about how resources are distributed. It sounds possible to have a democratically elected government that sets a communist economic policy.
      - chroem- 5y ago
        That's not true, because the goal is to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat through violent revolution. Democracies are incompatible with dictatorship and must be overthrown in order to purge the other social classes. This is why every instance of communism has led to human rights abuses and/or mass murder: totalitarianism is part of the ideology.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        edmundsauto 5y ago
        It’s been a long time since I read the Communist Manifesto. Do you mean to say that Marx’s goal was violent overthrow? I thought he described more of an evolution of systems until the workers paradise was reached.
      - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > Aren't democracy and communism orthogonal? Theoretically, yes. Practically, if you concentrate all ownership in the state you remove the means by which private citizens can check it.
        edmundsauto 5y ago
        Isn’t communism ownership by the people? I thought totalitarianism or fascism is where the state owns the means of production.
        ishjoh 5y ago
        I'm not aware of any communist country that didn't turn into an authoritarian state where the government imposed strict censorship and controls on the population. When you look at why, it starts to make sense. Without strict economic controls black markets start to appear, where goods are bought and sold outside of the communist economy. Communist philosophy requires that black markets don't exist, because they allow for capitalism, private property, and a market economy. So Communism requires that these things be removed from society, which requires brute force. Therefore taken from first principles, Communism is an authoritarian philosophy because it controls an individuals ability to buy, sell, and trade goods.
    - anigbrowl 5y ago
      Not actually true.
  - lazyeye 5y ago
    Lol
    - edmundsauto 5y ago
      This is neither a constructive comment, nor the cleverly sarcastic wit that you think it is. Are you unable to add anything useful to the conversation?
      - lazyeye 5y ago
        I was thinking you are a bit like a left-wing version of a holocaust denier.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  Are you sure you haven't just been taken by a talk radio conspiracy theory? The only thing I could find on this was that Glenn Beck was harping on it ten years ago. That guy is not well known for being a fountain of truth. [0] [0] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2009/sep/08/glenn-beck/glenn-beck-says-van-jones-avowed-communist/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2009/sep/08/glenn-beck...
  - chroem- 5y ago
    It says on his wikipedia page that he's a Leninist. It's not a conspiracy theory if he's open about it.
    - jjulius 5y ago
      I ctrl+f'd "Lenin" on Van Jones' Wiki page, and this is literally the only time Lenin is mentioned: >He became affiliated with many left activists, and co-founded a socialist collective called Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM). It protested against police brutality, held study groups on the theories of Marx and Lenin, and aspired to a multi-racial socialist utopia.[13] I'm not sure how being in a study group that discusses Lenin's theories automatically makes one an actual Leninist.
      - chroem- 5y ago
        Does co-founding a Leninist organization not make one a Leninist? Why would you create an organization if you don't believe in its ideals?
        jjulius 5y ago
        Does one have to adopt every ideal of something when founding an organization? Would that not be the point of discussing those theories? What do we like? Dislike? Want to modify/mold to fit our current system? But given your tone, and responses to other commenters, I am 100% certain that your feet are dug in and you aren't actually open to being swayed. So, enjoy your day! :)

Personally, I'm too confused to be even cynical about it. I don't know anything about Van Jones other than what I see on TV, but that by itself cannot explain why Bezos felt he deserved the "award".

chroem- 5y ago

Previously he's been known for being openly communist (i.e. not just a regular socialist). As an aside, I still find it odd how we've rightfully shunned other totalitarian and mass murdering political ideologies, but we've completely whitewashed communism. I couldn't imagine another newscaster openly identifying as a nazi.

edmundsauto 5y ago
The difference is that communism is an economic idea, which was used by regimes that did brutal things. Whereas the Nazi ideology drove the violence. In one case, it was correlated. In another, causative.
- chroem- 5y ago
  A core tenet of communist ideology is violent overthrow of democratic governments to implement a "dictatorship of the proletariat". Both are rooted in violence.
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    Aren't democracy and communism orthogonal? Admittedly, I'm not a scholar, but it seems to me that democracy is mostly concerned w/ how leaders are chosen. Whereas communism is about how resources are distributed. It sounds possible to have a democratically elected government that sets a communist economic policy.
    - chroem- 5y ago
      That's not true, because the goal is to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat through violent revolution. Democracies are incompatible with dictatorship and must be overthrown in order to purge the other social classes. This is why every instance of communism has led to human rights abuses and/or mass murder: totalitarianism is part of the ideology.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - edmundsauto 5y ago
        It’s been a long time since I read the Communist Manifesto. Do you mean to say that Marx’s goal was violent overthrow? I thought he described more of an evolution of systems until the workers paradise was reached.
    - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
      > Aren't democracy and communism orthogonal? Theoretically, yes. Practically, if you concentrate all ownership in the state you remove the means by which private citizens can check it.
      - edmundsauto 5y ago
        Isn’t communism ownership by the people? I thought totalitarianism or fascism is where the state owns the means of production.
        ishjoh 5y ago
        I'm not aware of any communist country that didn't turn into an authoritarian state where the government imposed strict censorship and controls on the population. When you look at why, it starts to make sense. Without strict economic controls black markets start to appear, where goods are bought and sold outside of the communist economy. Communist philosophy requires that black markets don't exist, because they allow for capitalism, private property, and a market economy. So Communism requires that these things be removed from society, which requires brute force. Therefore taken from first principles, Communism is an authoritarian philosophy because it controls an individuals ability to buy, sell, and trade goods.
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    Not actually true.
- lazyeye 5y ago
  Lol
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    This is neither a constructive comment, nor the cleverly sarcastic wit that you think it is. Are you unable to add anything useful to the conversation?
    - lazyeye 5y ago
      I was thinking you are a bit like a left-wing version of a holocaust denier.
mmastrac 5y ago
Are you sure you haven't just been taken by a talk radio conspiracy theory? The only thing I could find on this was that Glenn Beck was harping on it ten years ago. That guy is not well known for being a fountain of truth. [0] [0] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2009/sep/08/glenn-beck/glenn-beck-says-van-jones-avowed-communist/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2009/sep/08/glenn-beck...
- chroem- 5y ago
  It says on his wikipedia page that he's a Leninist. It's not a conspiracy theory if he's open about it.
  - jjulius 5y ago
    I ctrl+f'd "Lenin" on Van Jones' Wiki page, and this is literally the only time Lenin is mentioned: >He became affiliated with many left activists, and co-founded a socialist collective called Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement (STORM). It protested against police brutality, held study groups on the theories of Marx and Lenin, and aspired to a multi-racial socialist utopia.[13] I'm not sure how being in a study group that discusses Lenin's theories automatically makes one an actual Leninist.
    - chroem- 5y ago
      Does co-founding a Leninist organization not make one a Leninist? Why would you create an organization if you don't believe in its ideals?
      - jjulius 5y ago
        Does one have to adopt every ideal of something when founding an organization? Would that not be the point of discussing those theories? What do we like? Dislike? Want to modify/mold to fit our current system? But given your tone, and responses to other commenters, I am 100% certain that your feet are dug in and you aren't actually open to being swayed. So, enjoy your day! :)