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Somewhat related: In his recent book "This is Your Mind on Plants", Michael Pollan also discusses caffeine addiction. Transcript of an interview with him on Tim

by marttt 5y ago

Somewhat related: In his recent book "This is Your Mind on Plants", Michael Pollan also discusses caffeine addiction. Transcript of an interview with him on Tim Ferriss' blog: https://tim.blog/2021/06/30/michael-pollan-this-is-your-mind-on-plants-transcript/ https://tim.blog/2021/06/30/michael-pollan-this-is-your-mind... I've been off caffeine and yerba mate (of which the yerba I consumed daily for the past 9 or so years) for two weeks. Feels really great, I admit being somewhat less sharp mentally (for now), but I still get everything relevant done. And -- maybe yet I feel kind of more... mentally balanced? Imagine having less thoughts throughout the day, but the ones you have, you'll like more. :) It's like my energy levels are much more consistent, no sudden drops throughout the day -- and that's even when I'm doing heavy physical work. (I'm a full-time forestry worker, tree planter, brush cutter these days -- now not even thinking about the usual midday yerba mate kick I used to rely on.) The tiredness that sets in at night also feels much more calming. So IMO it's a highly recommended shift overall -- I guess just the first 4-5-6-7 days without coffee/strong tea may be really hard.

themodelplumber 5y ago
Curious, do you use anything else? I like trying out various ideas on long or difficult hikes. One category that consistently helps is the anti-inflammatory category. I've also tried some pretty interesting nootropics including one that was designed to support work in extreme environments, and the difference in feeling from caffeine was pretty wild. (I did have some pretty fascinating but unwanted side effects while getting the dosage dialed in, basically what I'd call super soldier mode, so I hesitate to mention it by name...)
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're getting at, but, in the anti-inflammatory category, glucosamine and aspirin are both great, and have some pretty good science behind them.
- marttt 5y ago
  Nope, nothing else. I have been heavily relying on yerba mate -- one sip or tiny cup works wonders during heavy tree planting sessions. This has always been my secret weapon, because, in contrast to coffee, it doesn't seem to cause a feeling of fluid loss. Also, during tree planting, I only occasionally eat a few carrots or other vegetables to help me finish the day. After that, a well-deserved meal will follow. Disclaimer, though: I have experimented with intermittent fasting for several years, so I suppose my body has already adapted to long periods of hunger. Be careful with this stuff, though, and don't listen to my silly advice.
danenania 5y ago
Do you think doing a job involving more physical than mental labor made it easier to get through the withdrawal? It seems like pushing through the stupor is tough but doable for physical stuff, whereas with mental work (like programming) you can be pretty much knocked out of commission until the symptoms subside.
- kossTKR 5y ago
  Exactly, i find mental work close to impossible a few days after quitting caffeine. I can do social stuff to an extend and get manual labor stuff done, but not anything requiring initiative and self discipline.
- marttt 5y ago
  > Do you think doing a job involving more physical than mental labor made it easier to get through the withdrawal? Very probably, yes. IIRC, I have actually tried quitting yerba/coffee a few times earlier as well while doing mostly mental work. And I always failed. Currently my days in the forest consist of several 1.5h brush cutting sessions -- meaning, during that time, I am in nonstop movement, cutting the brush, unable to do anything else. During a break between the sessions, I am usually heavily dehydrated, so my body just wants a lot of water. I think I've even come to dislike the idea of having coffee or (really surprisingly) yerba mate at that point. Currently I usually work 3x1.5h sessions every day, plus water drinking breaks and saw blade sharpening, so it's around 5-6 hours in the woods every day. And, in the forest you have no coffee shops, no other shops, no fridges. And, if you manage not to take coffee with you, there's simply no coffee at all nearby! I suppose that's the essential part of the whole trick. I plan to return to mental work for the winter. I do think staying off yerba/coffee will be a struggle again for indoor work and/or cold season.
  - swader999 5y ago
    Neat to hear from a planter, you guys are at the front of the pack when it comes to maximising physical performance. Are you working in BC right now?
    - 5y ago
navi0 5y ago
I’d be interested in talking with you about a project I’m working on (forestry-related, not caffeine-related), if you’re open to it. Info@madronus.com

by marttt 5y ago

themodelplumber 5y ago

Curious, do you use anything else? I like trying out various ideas on long or difficult hikes. One category that consistently helps is the anti-inflammatory category. I've also tried some pretty interesting nootropics including one that was designed to support work in extreme environments, and the difference in feeling from caffeine was pretty wild. (I did have some pretty fascinating but unwanted side effects while getting the dosage dialed in, basically what I'd call super soldier mode, so I hesitate to mention it by name...)

actually_a_dog 5y ago
I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're getting at, but, in the anti-inflammatory category, glucosamine and aspirin are both great, and have some pretty good science behind them.
marttt 5y ago
Nope, nothing else. I have been heavily relying on yerba mate -- one sip or tiny cup works wonders during heavy tree planting sessions. This has always been my secret weapon, because, in contrast to coffee, it doesn't seem to cause a feeling of fluid loss. Also, during tree planting, I only occasionally eat a few carrots or other vegetables to help me finish the day. After that, a well-deserved meal will follow. Disclaimer, though: I have experimented with intermittent fasting for several years, so I suppose my body has already adapted to long periods of hunger. Be careful with this stuff, though, and don't listen to my silly advice.

danenania 5y ago

Do you think doing a job involving more physical than mental labor made it easier to get through the withdrawal? It seems like pushing through the stupor is tough but doable for physical stuff, whereas with mental work (like programming) you can be pretty much knocked out of commission until the symptoms subside.

kossTKR 5y ago
Exactly, i find mental work close to impossible a few days after quitting caffeine. I can do social stuff to an extend and get manual labor stuff done, but not anything requiring initiative and self discipline.
marttt 5y ago
> Do you think doing a job involving more physical than mental labor made it easier to get through the withdrawal? Very probably, yes. IIRC, I have actually tried quitting yerba/coffee a few times earlier as well while doing mostly mental work. And I always failed. Currently my days in the forest consist of several 1.5h brush cutting sessions -- meaning, during that time, I am in nonstop movement, cutting the brush, unable to do anything else. During a break between the sessions, I am usually heavily dehydrated, so my body just wants a lot of water. I think I've even come to dislike the idea of having coffee or (really surprisingly) yerba mate at that point. Currently I usually work 3x1.5h sessions every day, plus water drinking breaks and saw blade sharpening, so it's around 5-6 hours in the woods every day. And, in the forest you have no coffee shops, no other shops, no fridges. And, if you manage not to take coffee with you, there's simply no coffee at all nearby! I suppose that's the essential part of the whole trick. I plan to return to mental work for the winter. I do think staying off yerba/coffee will be a struggle again for indoor work and/or cold season.
- swader999 5y ago
  Neat to hear from a planter, you guys are at the front of the pack when it comes to maximising physical performance. Are you working in BC right now?
  - 5y ago

navi0 5y ago

I’d be interested in talking with you about a project I’m working on (forestry-related, not caffeine-related), if you’re open to it. Info@madronus.com