5 ms·

> It's tiresome. You can't use the image of a Native American as a symbol of strength and bravery as was done by sports teams and clubs -- despite the explicit

> It's tiresome. You can't use the image of a Native American as a symbol of strength and bravery as was done by sports teams and clubs -- despite the explicit intention of honor The thing I keep thinking about, in regards to this subject, is there seems an implicit backhandedness even in the case of honor. It could be argued we do the same with animals, take the image of the powerful thing that could kill us, and totemize it. However, the two things implicit here are that we respect it because we fear it and, conversely, we honor it after we have beaten it (and perhaps especially because we have beaten it); we honor the spirit of the wolf by dancing around a fire with the hide of one turned into a headdress.

cherrycherry98 5y ago
Is this not reading too much into it? How many sports teams in the US use Vikings, Spartans, or Trojans as mascots? To my knowledge "we" (whoever that is supposed to mean) never defeated these people. They are generally associated by the public as having been fierce warriors.
- apocalypstyx 5y ago
  I state "we" because I think it could be argued to be a generic human practice overall, to one degree or another (wearing a wolfskin as described could be as easily attributed to any culture present where wolfs have existed, whether in regards to American or European history.) In regards to Vikings and Spartans, etc, I would say there is appropriation here nonetheless, the appropriation of legacy. The whole notion of "Western thought" is an appropriated amalgam: we are not Greek (and many Anglo European cultures have reject the notion of Grecians being "white" to varying degrees, but we still use "deep time" to anchor ourselves, justify ourselves. In this way, we don't have to justify that we are "creating something new." Christianity may be the best case in point: it anchors itself to the ancientness of the Torah, yet contradicts its history at will, but this doesn't matter, the anchor remains. The two can coexist. We can claim others' past glories as our own, and celebrate "our" own. (And in the cultural sense the conquering of the Americas is something that is celebrated, the overcoming of the "Indian as Other to the American self," as I once heard it put.
- mewse-hn 5y ago
  Your three examples are historical civilizations rather than current, living indigenous tribes. I keep thinking of the "Washington Caucasians" parody shirt when this discussion comes up.
- nautilius 5y ago
  Do you think the Spartans would feel honored if some 3rd class high-school competitive walking club in Whatchamacallit, IL labels itself 'The Whatchamacallit Spartans'?

cherrycherry98 5y ago

Is this not reading too much into it? How many sports teams in the US use Vikings, Spartans, or Trojans as mascots? To my knowledge "we" (whoever that is supposed to mean) never defeated these people. They are generally associated by the public as having been fierce warriors.

apocalypstyx 5y ago
I state "we" because I think it could be argued to be a generic human practice overall, to one degree or another (wearing a wolfskin as described could be as easily attributed to any culture present where wolfs have existed, whether in regards to American or European history.) In regards to Vikings and Spartans, etc, I would say there is appropriation here nonetheless, the appropriation of legacy. The whole notion of "Western thought" is an appropriated amalgam: we are not Greek (and many Anglo European cultures have reject the notion of Grecians being "white" to varying degrees, but we still use "deep time" to anchor ourselves, justify ourselves. In this way, we don't have to justify that we are "creating something new." Christianity may be the best case in point: it anchors itself to the ancientness of the Torah, yet contradicts its history at will, but this doesn't matter, the anchor remains. The two can coexist. We can claim others' past glories as our own, and celebrate "our" own. (And in the cultural sense the conquering of the Americas is something that is celebrated, the overcoming of the "Indian as Other to the American self," as I once heard it put.
mewse-hn 5y ago
Your three examples are historical civilizations rather than current, living indigenous tribes. I keep thinking of the "Washington Caucasians" parody shirt when this discussion comes up.
nautilius 5y ago
Do you think the Spartans would feel honored if some 3rd class high-school competitive walking club in Whatchamacallit, IL labels itself 'The Whatchamacallit Spartans'?