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Navigating to a web page is so much easier than installing an application. Even with modern operating systems like iOS. Despite the fact that web pages are gett

Navigating to a web page is so much easier than installing an application. Even with modern operating systems like iOS. Despite the fact that web pages are getting more and more bloated, applications are like 10x bloated. And it's even officially supported. Modern Android application require embedding something like megabyte of various "compat" libraries. I don't know how iOS state of things is, but in the past Swift runtime was required to embed as well (you could avoid it with Objective C, but that's so out of fashion). Another factor is cross-platform apps. Web app is still the most cross-platform solution. Also you can create and update web apps without gatekeepers approval.

ducktective 5y ago
So essentially, it was a race between sand-boxing environments like JVM, .NET and browsers? I think there was a big potential for JVM to dominate this sector...
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  Sandbox for JVM was mostly an afterthought IMO. There were lot of vulnerabilities to escape sandbox, much more compared to browsers. But nail in the coffin IMO was Steve Jobs, who decided not to adopt nor Flash, nor JVM in mobile Safari.
  - ducktective 5y ago
    It's amazing how much our everyday experiences are resulted from decisions of few people or completely random coincidences.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  There were earnest early attempts at making Java and .NET the language to run webapps, that all failed. For reasons. So, it wasn't for lack of trying. Javascript won by default, just by being slightly less nasty. Many of us run (selective) Javascript blockers to keep it from being too nasty. They don't always succeed.
incrudible 5y ago
> Navigating to a web page is so much easier than installing an application. Perhaps, but I don't spend a lot of time installing applications, nor am I concerned about megabytes of disk usage. None of the web applications I use do anything particularly interesting - all of the interesting applications I use are not web apps. Web apps give maximum convenience to developers and sysadmins and in some cases, this is a worthwhile tradeoff, but often enough it just makes for an inferior product.
- saurik 5y ago
  But the problem is that the premise of web falls apart if you have to install a separate app for every kind of content. I want to be able to have a hyperlink on my website to a TikTok video or an Instagram post and have people actually see it rather than go "ugh I have to install an app to see the content you are linking to". I want to be able to just click around the web without having to ever think about the boundaries between "apps". This is also why a lot of us hate authwalls: "oh god another account I need to set up"... it doesn't take much time to set up an account, but in a world where every single damned website would want an account you will never be done with it. The dual reasons then why you don't spend much time installing apps is because on the one side the web works well enough that people just link to stuff on the web and it works most of the time... and yet on the other side you also see people choose to centralize things into places that are easier to link stuff from, including apps people are more likely to have installed, which is a background force of centralization. The world people (like you) seem to want is one where the web is essentially dead and everyone just sits around in some subset of waller gardens that they don't really leave, with some minimal amount of hyperlinks available to get content in and out of other products. I have a link to a map, well, you better have Google Maps installed or it won't work. That just seems like a depressing failure of vision to me: the goal should be to get the web to the point where it replaces all of these stupid apps we have to have, so no one ever has to decide if an app is "installed or uninstalled" ever again: all content is immediately consumable at all times with nothing other than a URL. And we could be there if people with vested interests--like Apple--didn't stop actively trying to hobble web standards so people were forced to install more apps constantly.
  - 5y ago
marcellus23 5y ago
> I don't know how iOS state of things is, but in the past Swift runtime was required to embed as well (you could avoid it with Objective C, but that's so out of fashion). This is no longer true on iOS and hasn't been for at least a couple years.

ducktective 5y ago

So essentially, it was a race between sand-boxing environments like JVM, .NET and browsers? I think there was a big potential for JVM to dominate this sector...

vbezhenar 5y ago
Sandbox for JVM was mostly an afterthought IMO. There were lot of vulnerabilities to escape sandbox, much more compared to browsers. But nail in the coffin IMO was Steve Jobs, who decided not to adopt nor Flash, nor JVM in mobile Safari.
- ducktective 5y ago
  It's amazing how much our everyday experiences are resulted from decisions of few people or completely random coincidences.
ncmncm 5y ago
There were earnest early attempts at making Java and .NET the language to run webapps, that all failed. For reasons. So, it wasn't for lack of trying. Javascript won by default, just by being slightly less nasty. Many of us run (selective) Javascript blockers to keep it from being too nasty. They don't always succeed.

incrudible 5y ago

> Navigating to a web page is so much easier than installing an application. Perhaps, but I don't spend a lot of time installing applications, nor am I concerned about megabytes of disk usage. None of the web applications I use do anything particularly interesting - all of the interesting applications I use are not web apps. Web apps give maximum convenience to developers and sysadmins and in some cases, this is a worthwhile tradeoff, but often enough it just makes for an inferior product.

saurik 5y ago
But the problem is that the premise of web falls apart if you have to install a separate app for every kind of content. I want to be able to have a hyperlink on my website to a TikTok video or an Instagram post and have people actually see it rather than go "ugh I have to install an app to see the content you are linking to". I want to be able to just click around the web without having to ever think about the boundaries between "apps". This is also why a lot of us hate authwalls: "oh god another account I need to set up"... it doesn't take much time to set up an account, but in a world where every single damned website would want an account you will never be done with it. The dual reasons then why you don't spend much time installing apps is because on the one side the web works well enough that people just link to stuff on the web and it works most of the time... and yet on the other side you also see people choose to centralize things into places that are easier to link stuff from, including apps people are more likely to have installed, which is a background force of centralization. The world people (like you) seem to want is one where the web is essentially dead and everyone just sits around in some subset of waller gardens that they don't really leave, with some minimal amount of hyperlinks available to get content in and out of other products. I have a link to a map, well, you better have Google Maps installed or it won't work. That just seems like a depressing failure of vision to me: the goal should be to get the web to the point where it replaces all of these stupid apps we have to have, so no one ever has to decide if an app is "installed or uninstalled" ever again: all content is immediately consumable at all times with nothing other than a URL. And we could be there if people with vested interests--like Apple--didn't stop actively trying to hobble web standards so people were forced to install more apps constantly.
- 5y ago

marcellus23 5y ago

> I don't know how iOS state of things is, but in the past Swift runtime was required to embed as well (you could avoid it with Objective C, but that's so out of fashion). This is no longer true on iOS and hasn't been for at least a couple years.