5 ms·

Atlassian feels like a Xerox or Kodak of the modern age. A lot of their products were for a while the only option, and never bothered to evolve. Now we've got

Atlassian feels like a Xerox or Kodak of the modern age. A lot of their products were for a while the only option, and never bothered to evolve. Now we've got competitive options through Slack instead of Hipchat, Asana instead of Jira, and Notion instead of Confluence. Heck even Trello became competitive enough for Atlassian to acquire them.

pineconewarrior 5y ago
Atlassian really needs to get it together. At my agency we're moving away from BitBucket because it has degraded so much over the past year. I was fine with the lack of features, but they've been actively making the product worse.
- ep103 5y ago
  When they bought the company that now makes what they sell as Bitbucket On Premises, they should have literally thrown away their cloud offering, and just offered that... in the cloud. This years long process of badly re-implementing bitbucket on prem into the cloud, feature by feature, while the rest of the world evolves passed what they bought years ago is absurd.
  - bberenberg 5y ago
    Stash (now called BitBucket Server) was built in house, it wasn't acquired. As far as I know, the BB Cloud and BB Server teams didn't have aligned roadmaps. Source: I was an employee there when this was being built.
crawsome 5y ago
You can’t even CC someone ex a vendor) in a Jira ticket without them having to make themselves an account. Atlassian and all Jira products are ugly, and have more menus and settings scattered around than microsoft.
polote 5y ago
> Notion instead of Confluence Google luck replacing Confluence with Notion if you are a company of more than 100 employees
- mijoharas 5y ago
  How come out of interest?
  - polote 5y ago
    There is not even an admin panel in Notion. As soon as you have a lot of documents, the search is super slow. Search that is super limited regarding its filtering capabilities. Not possible to impose a structure on documents, no review before publishing. The right management system is super unflexible, the folder system is too flexible, the UI overall is not built to support thousands of docs, almost no analytics... So yeah Notion looks better at first, but I dont know any company of more than 100 employees that would trade it from Confluence. (I'm building a competitor to Confluence that looks good and is UX friendly, but to me I'm not building a competitor to Notion, Notion is very limited in term of the functionalities companies need)
  - prepend 5y ago
    I’m not the person you asked, but when I looked at it, Notion was too expensive for large teams. I work in an org with shifting project teams and the need for persistent docs and paying $100/user for thousands of people who will minimally contribute to material made by dozens of users was too expensive. I used to use hosted confluence but not use GitHub (for like $50/year) and GitLab community hosted (for a little devops labor).
InspiredIdiot 5y ago
I'm no Atlassian fanboy but Asana is only a replacement for Jira in specific use cases. I've used Jira Server successfully on large software projects. Not amazing but I've now used enough other products to say "pretty good". Jira Cloud... not great for that use case. Fewer features and every click seems to require a 300ms minimum REST call. Asana, even more limited functionality. After years there is still no way to automatically remove completed work from the board. But the UI and flow are pretty good and snappy so for certain use cases like smaller shorter-term projects it can be good.
- notjustanymike 5y ago
  The UI lag is real. I checked why, and it turns out every ticket returns permissions for every single UI element on the component.
  - cyberpunk 5y ago
    The 'fat app' if you're on a Mac is about 100x better than the browser version for some reason.. I still only try to touch it once a day though. :}
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
I know it's a favorite pastime on HN to bitch about Jira, but I actually commend Atlassian for "New Jira". IMO they had an incredibly difficult problem: how to simplify the app that had grown pretty monstrous over the years, but in a way where you don't piss off every company that has their own specific workflow so if you don't support their particular way of doing things, they crap all over your changes. I'm very happy with the new jira that we've been using for the past ~18 months, and I think it strikes the right balance between simplicity and ease of setup while still supporting the features we need.
- adkadskhj 5y ago
  I could agree with you from a UX-flow perspective, but the tech is so shoddy that i loathe it. Everything is a "web 2.0" monstrosity of load times and popin. Open the wrong link and it takes you 40 seconds for components to popin, pull data, render, move to the highlighted component, it to popin, pull data, render, and finally you get what you want. The UX-flow might be good, not sure, but the tech is so bad it actually inhibits users. The use of independent components might be neat when loading a Jira card from Bitbucket pull requests (which works), but it makes loading Jira cards from... Jira, terrible. Imo.
  - user5994461 5y ago
    >>> Open the wrong link and it takes you 40 seconds There's nothing in JIRA that take anywhere near 40 seconds to open. If you really have pages that take double digit seconds to open (you can open your browser's development tools to measure), it's more likely administrator in your company that is to blame for doing a horrible setup running the web service on a toaster and the database on a NAS.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      What's the excuse for Jira Cloud? It sometimes takes up to 60s to open a popup window with an issue's details.
      - 5y ago

pineconewarrior 5y ago

Atlassian really needs to get it together. At my agency we're moving away from BitBucket because it has degraded so much over the past year. I was fine with the lack of features, but they've been actively making the product worse.

ep103 5y ago
When they bought the company that now makes what they sell as Bitbucket On Premises, they should have literally thrown away their cloud offering, and just offered that... in the cloud. This years long process of badly re-implementing bitbucket on prem into the cloud, feature by feature, while the rest of the world evolves passed what they bought years ago is absurd.
- bberenberg 5y ago
  Stash (now called BitBucket Server) was built in house, it wasn't acquired. As far as I know, the BB Cloud and BB Server teams didn't have aligned roadmaps. Source: I was an employee there when this was being built.

crawsome 5y ago

You can’t even CC someone ex a vendor) in a Jira ticket without them having to make themselves an account. Atlassian and all Jira products are ugly, and have more menus and settings scattered around than microsoft.

polote 5y ago

> Notion instead of Confluence Google luck replacing Confluence with Notion if you are a company of more than 100 employees

mijoharas 5y ago
How come out of interest?
- polote 5y ago
  There is not even an admin panel in Notion. As soon as you have a lot of documents, the search is super slow. Search that is super limited regarding its filtering capabilities. Not possible to impose a structure on documents, no review before publishing. The right management system is super unflexible, the folder system is too flexible, the UI overall is not built to support thousands of docs, almost no analytics... So yeah Notion looks better at first, but I dont know any company of more than 100 employees that would trade it from Confluence. (I'm building a competitor to Confluence that looks good and is UX friendly, but to me I'm not building a competitor to Notion, Notion is very limited in term of the functionalities companies need)
- prepend 5y ago
  I’m not the person you asked, but when I looked at it, Notion was too expensive for large teams. I work in an org with shifting project teams and the need for persistent docs and paying $100/user for thousands of people who will minimally contribute to material made by dozens of users was too expensive. I used to use hosted confluence but not use GitHub (for like $50/year) and GitLab community hosted (for a little devops labor).

InspiredIdiot 5y ago

I'm no Atlassian fanboy but Asana is only a replacement for Jira in specific use cases. I've used Jira Server successfully on large software projects. Not amazing but I've now used enough other products to say "pretty good". Jira Cloud... not great for that use case. Fewer features and every click seems to require a 300ms minimum REST call. Asana, even more limited functionality. After years there is still no way to automatically remove completed work from the board. But the UI and flow are pretty good and snappy so for certain use cases like smaller shorter-term projects it can be good.

notjustanymike 5y ago
The UI lag is real. I checked why, and it turns out every ticket returns permissions for every single UI element on the component.
- cyberpunk 5y ago
  The 'fat app' if you're on a Mac is about 100x better than the browser version for some reason.. I still only try to touch it once a day though. :}

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

I know it's a favorite pastime on HN to bitch about Jira, but I actually commend Atlassian for "New Jira". IMO they had an incredibly difficult problem: how to simplify the app that had grown pretty monstrous over the years, but in a way where you don't piss off every company that has their own specific workflow so if you don't support their particular way of doing things, they crap all over your changes. I'm very happy with the new jira that we've been using for the past ~18 months, and I think it strikes the right balance between simplicity and ease of setup while still supporting the features we need.

adkadskhj 5y ago
I could agree with you from a UX-flow perspective, but the tech is so shoddy that i loathe it. Everything is a "web 2.0" monstrosity of load times and popin. Open the wrong link and it takes you 40 seconds for components to popin, pull data, render, move to the highlighted component, it to popin, pull data, render, and finally you get what you want. The UX-flow might be good, not sure, but the tech is so bad it actually inhibits users. The use of independent components might be neat when loading a Jira card from Bitbucket pull requests (which works), but it makes loading Jira cards from... Jira, terrible. Imo.
- user5994461 5y ago
  >>> Open the wrong link and it takes you 40 seconds There's nothing in JIRA that take anywhere near 40 seconds to open. If you really have pages that take double digit seconds to open (you can open your browser's development tools to measure), it's more likely administrator in your company that is to blame for doing a horrible setup running the web service on a toaster and the database on a NAS.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    What's the excuse for Jira Cloud? It sometimes takes up to 60s to open a popup window with an issue's details.
    - 5y ago