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The unpleasant truth is that developers don't stand apart as a group that scrunitise or raise uncomfortable questions about online surveillance.[1] Why not? Be

The unpleasant truth is that developers don't stand apart as a group that scrunitise or raise uncomfortable questions about online surveillance.[1] Why not? Because it is developers who build, aid and abet digital surveillance in the first place. It's developers who are more likely to defend big tech (Google, Facebook, Microsoft etc) rather than question the practices of these companies (or this industry as a whole). An example: imagine a future cloud-based operating system (OS) that requires mandatory email sign-in to use the OS to full capability. Once signed-in, everything you do in the OS is tracked, recorded and stored in the 'cloud'. Sounds horrible? Well, we have had this for years. It's called ChromeOS. It's used by millions of students in thousands of schools across the globe. Google promises to never build profiles using the data they record and save. That's all it takes to placate many developers. No concerns from developers about capturing such enormous volumes of data in the first place. Or the implications of aggregating such huge volumes of data. If developers care so it little about online tracking, and prefer to rush to the defence of their favourite big tech company, who else is left to challenge ubiquitous online surveillance? [1] Aside: Terms like telemetry, analytics, web beacons, are words designed to deliberately obfuscate their purpose and to sound benign. No developer would dare to use their more honest counterpart terms: surveillance or user tracking.

onli 5y ago
It's the other way around: The criticism of these tech companies and surveillance practices often comes from developers. Organisations like the EFF or the whole crypto anarchist thing is carried by developers. In Germany, data privacy and security is a core topic of the CCC, which is originally a hacker organization. When I refused to get a ID card with a chip in it, the women at the other side of the table asked me why all the people refusing them are computer scientists like me ("Because we know how the systems are made").
- SCNP 5y ago
  This is the problem with distilling any group of people into a monoculture. The only true fact you can get from grouping people into the collective term of "developers" is the fact that they write software. This occupation/hobby says nothing about the values that they hold. Developers make malware and also anti-malware. The group as a whole works both sides of all of these issues. I hope I'm not putting it too harshly but you're both wrong and you're both right. Edit to add: you also don't need to be a developer to understand the issue and advocate for either side.
  - onli 5y ago
    No worries, not too harsh. You are right in general, it's too huge a group. However, I still think it's right that the most poignant and relevant criticism comes from developers and people that work in the core of IT. The CCC was really a prime example of that, or just take Snowden.
- cryptonector 5y ago
  I know plenty of developers who decried the surveillance state before covid, but who now gush about information-rich vaccine QR code passports and what not. "Such cool information!" I heard one say. I think most developers who didn't care for the surveillance state in 2019 just don't mind it now. Me? I accept that everything we do online leaves a huge metadata trail. Same as in meatspace. So much metadata as to be sufficient for all legitimate state interests and then some. But only the metadata should be available w/o warrants -- same as in meatspace.
MisterTea 5y ago
> The unpleasant truth is that developers don't stand apart as a group that scrunitise or raise uncomfortable questions about online surveillance. When you're making north of 150k/yr helping to build digital prisons It's called biting the hand that feeds you. I have friends in the industry who have no qualm working on such tech because the money is good or not everything they do is evil etc.

onli 5y ago

It's the other way around: The criticism of these tech companies and surveillance practices often comes from developers. Organisations like the EFF or the whole crypto anarchist thing is carried by developers. In Germany, data privacy and security is a core topic of the CCC, which is originally a hacker organization. When I refused to get a ID card with a chip in it, the women at the other side of the table asked me why all the people refusing them are computer scientists like me ("Because we know how the systems are made").

SCNP 5y ago
This is the problem with distilling any group of people into a monoculture. The only true fact you can get from grouping people into the collective term of "developers" is the fact that they write software. This occupation/hobby says nothing about the values that they hold. Developers make malware and also anti-malware. The group as a whole works both sides of all of these issues. I hope I'm not putting it too harshly but you're both wrong and you're both right. Edit to add: you also don't need to be a developer to understand the issue and advocate for either side.
- onli 5y ago
  No worries, not too harsh. You are right in general, it's too huge a group. However, I still think it's right that the most poignant and relevant criticism comes from developers and people that work in the core of IT. The CCC was really a prime example of that, or just take Snowden.
cryptonector 5y ago
I know plenty of developers who decried the surveillance state before covid, but who now gush about information-rich vaccine QR code passports and what not. "Such cool information!" I heard one say. I think most developers who didn't care for the surveillance state in 2019 just don't mind it now. Me? I accept that everything we do online leaves a huge metadata trail. Same as in meatspace. So much metadata as to be sufficient for all legitimate state interests and then some. But only the metadata should be available w/o warrants -- same as in meatspace.

MisterTea 5y ago

> The unpleasant truth is that developers don't stand apart as a group that scrunitise or raise uncomfortable questions about online surveillance. When you're making north of 150k/yr helping to build digital prisons It's called biting the hand that feeds you. I have friends in the industry who have no qualm working on such tech because the money is good or not everything they do is evil etc.