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> More people are dying on migration routes then by terrorism ~by a factor of two~ by 50%. That is, hostile border policy by western nations are causing at leas

by zohch 5y ago

> More people are dying on migration routes then by terrorism ~by a factor of two~ by 50%. That is, hostile border policy by western nations are causing at least many more deaths then global terrorists. So the west is responsible for people being killed outside of the west? Why don't you blame the countries where these people are getting killed in? And how many of the people dying on migrant routes actually qualify as refugees according to the definition used by UNHCR? How many countries do migrants to the west pass through on average, and if it one or more, why not blame those? Why is it not the countries these people are fleeing from that hold the ultimate responsibility? And if they are indeed refugees, why are they passing through more than one country? I am an immigrant to the west, I would love to have my family here, but I can't because they would not qualify as refugees, why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here? Why are they entitled to me having to pay for them while my family have to struggle with violence and poverty where they live?

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
That's a very confused argument. Refugees are not a problem? Your family struggle with violence and poverty, yet the West should have tighter border controls? Who's 'officially' a refugee and who isn't? The game is called 'blamethrowing' and it accomplishes nothing.
- zohch 5y ago
  > Refugees are not a problem? Not a problem for what? > Your family struggle with violence and poverty, yet the West should have tighter border controls? What does my family's living conditions have to do with the west's border control policy? > Who's 'officially' a refugee and who isn't? I do not define this and you can find the definition used by various authorities readily available on the internet. The country where I reside uses UNHRC definitions and does not consider applications of people who are not already in the country. But as far as I know, struggling with violence and poverty is generally not enough to qualify for refugee status.
runarberg 5y ago
Seeking shelter is a protected human right. Crossing borders to seek asylum is not breaking the law. Being a refugee does not make you a criminal. Your question “why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here?” is a loaded question based on false premise and should not be answered. However, even with a right to seek asylum many refugees need to smuggle them self into their prospected host country. This is an extremely dangerous activity, and is often done through actual criminal groups and costs a fortune. This business would not exist if the border policies in European and North American countries weren’t so hostile. Over half of confirmed migrant deaths occur while crossing the Mediterranean in unsafe conditions. These crossings could be done using far safer transit if Europe had humane border policies. So yes, you can blame the west for these deaths. On top of that European and North American countries often influence the border policies in the pass through counties such as Turkey and Mexico. > why do [refugees] get favorable treatment here? They most often don’t. But they should. The reason being is that their homes are not safe. They need to flee to a new country or risk a worse fate. In other words, they need help. A humane society would give everyone help that needs it.
- zohch 5y ago
  > Seeking shelter is a protected human right. Protected by who? Where does it come from? If you live in the real world you will know that "protected human rights" are lies westerners tell themselves while they buy cheap goods from china made by slaves. > Crossing borders to seek asylum is not breaking the law. If I bring my family here without following immigration procedures they will be deported and I will likely lose my residence permit or be rejected on renewal. > Your question “why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here?” is a loaded question based on false premise and should not be answered. No false premise. Most people who come to Europe without following immigration procedures are not refugees. Just because they think they should have the right to live in Europe does not make them refugees, and circumventing immigration laws is the definition of breaking the law. > However, even with a right to seek asylum many refugees need to smuggle them self into their prospected host country. If they come from countries not bordering Europe, why do they have to come to Europe? Is Europe the only safe place in the world? And why is Europe responsible for their safety in the rest of the world? > Over half of confirmed migrant deaths occur while crossing the Mediterranean in unsafe conditions. How many of these migrants would qualify as refugees? And how is it Europe's fault if they get killed outside of Europe. > why do [refugees] get favorable treatment here? > They most often don’t. But they should. The reason being is that their homes are not safe. They need to flee to a new country or risk a worse fate. In other words, they need help. A humane society would give everyone help that needs it. You conflate refugees and people who illegally enter Europe with no legal basis and do not qualify as refugees. And there are many more of the second category than the first. Not having a safe home does is not even considered in the definition of a Refugee by UNHRC, and even if it was, generally UNHRC does not recognize the right of those with legitimate refugee status to just decide where they would like to go. Everyone who needs money is not entitled to mine. I would much rather send it to my family than give it to people who break the laws and enter the country where I reside with no legal basis which places additional tax burdens on me.

by zohch 5y ago

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

That's a very confused argument. Refugees are not a problem? Your family struggle with violence and poverty, yet the West should have tighter border controls? Who's 'officially' a refugee and who isn't? The game is called 'blamethrowing' and it accomplishes nothing.

zohch 5y ago
> Refugees are not a problem? Not a problem for what? > Your family struggle with violence and poverty, yet the West should have tighter border controls? What does my family's living conditions have to do with the west's border control policy? > Who's 'officially' a refugee and who isn't? I do not define this and you can find the definition used by various authorities readily available on the internet. The country where I reside uses UNHRC definitions and does not consider applications of people who are not already in the country. But as far as I know, struggling with violence and poverty is generally not enough to qualify for refugee status.

runarberg 5y ago

Seeking shelter is a protected human right. Crossing borders to seek asylum is not breaking the law. Being a refugee does not make you a criminal. Your question “why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here?” is a loaded question based on false premise and should not be answered. However, even with a right to seek asylum many refugees need to smuggle them self into their prospected host country. This is an extremely dangerous activity, and is often done through actual criminal groups and costs a fortune. This business would not exist if the border policies in European and North American countries weren’t so hostile. Over half of confirmed migrant deaths occur while crossing the Mediterranean in unsafe conditions. These crossings could be done using far safer transit if Europe had humane border policies. So yes, you can blame the west for these deaths. On top of that European and North American countries often influence the border policies in the pass through counties such as Turkey and Mexico. > why do [refugees] get favorable treatment here? They most often don’t. But they should. The reason being is that their homes are not safe. They need to flee to a new country or risk a worse fate. In other words, they need help. A humane society would give everyone help that needs it.

zohch 5y ago
> Seeking shelter is a protected human right. Protected by who? Where does it come from? If you live in the real world you will know that "protected human rights" are lies westerners tell themselves while they buy cheap goods from china made by slaves. > Crossing borders to seek asylum is not breaking the law. If I bring my family here without following immigration procedures they will be deported and I will likely lose my residence permit or be rejected on renewal. > Your question “why do people who break the laws get favorable treatment here?” is a loaded question based on false premise and should not be answered. No false premise. Most people who come to Europe without following immigration procedures are not refugees. Just because they think they should have the right to live in Europe does not make them refugees, and circumventing immigration laws is the definition of breaking the law. > However, even with a right to seek asylum many refugees need to smuggle them self into their prospected host country. If they come from countries not bordering Europe, why do they have to come to Europe? Is Europe the only safe place in the world? And why is Europe responsible for their safety in the rest of the world? > Over half of confirmed migrant deaths occur while crossing the Mediterranean in unsafe conditions. How many of these migrants would qualify as refugees? And how is it Europe's fault if they get killed outside of Europe. > why do [refugees] get favorable treatment here? > They most often don’t. But they should. The reason being is that their homes are not safe. They need to flee to a new country or risk a worse fate. In other words, they need help. A humane society would give everyone help that needs it. You conflate refugees and people who illegally enter Europe with no legal basis and do not qualify as refugees. And there are many more of the second category than the first. Not having a safe home does is not even considered in the definition of a Refugee by UNHRC, and even if it was, generally UNHRC does not recognize the right of those with legitimate refugee status to just decide where they would like to go. Everyone who needs money is not entitled to mine. I would much rather send it to my family than give it to people who break the laws and enter the country where I reside with no legal basis which places additional tax burdens on me.