5 ms·

I don't doubt death from starvation is a possibility, but probably not the majority cause.

baybal2 5y ago
> I don't doubt death from starvation is a possibility, but probably not the majority cause. There is quite a possibility it is.
- laumars 5y ago
  A lot of the remoter and poor regions grow their own crops. What they lack is - education (understanding how to slow the spread the virus with many not even wearing a mask when looking after family members who are ill) - money (to pay for any medical care needed to treat COVID victims) And in the poorer but non-remote areas you have population density and hygiene issues. I’m not saying there aren’t going to be cases where famine is an issue. But it’s certainly not the majority killer — COVID is an effective enough killer on its own if it’s not handled carefully.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    India is much less of an agricultural economy than how it appears to people in the West. People may be living in villages, but fully reliant on city jobs for income to feed themselves. I doubt even a distant relative will lend a hand to a starving person in India. The society is extremely stratified. People just a step away on the income ladder live completely separate lives.
    - laumars 5y ago
      I’m not talking about farmland. I’m talking about the basics like having a few trees that grow fruit. Yes it’s not much, but it can be the difference between life and death when you’re talking about starvation.
      - baybal2 5y ago
        Most people in villages do not own any land, not even an inch of it to plant a single tree.
        laumars 5y ago
        I didn’t say “people”, I said “regions”. Indians generally have a large and collaborative communities, which is a concept totally alien to many westerners who don’t even talk to their neighbours. This is also part of the reason COVID is so rampant there. And yes, I’m aware I’ve now reduced the discussion down to massive generalisations about a massive country with a diverse populous and I’m sorry. Obviously there will be a great many counter examples that disproves my point. But from the perspective of my friends and family who have other friends and family in poorer regions of India (and I do mean poorer by Indian standards not poorer but ours but relatively rich by Indians) what I’ve said is fair and accurate. Im sure what you’ve said is also true by virtue of the size of the country.
    - aww_dang 5y ago
      Also remittances from abroad.
      - baybal2 5y ago
        Do you realise that "poor Indian people going to work abroad" are in their prime majority not that poor by India's own standards? It takes a fortune for a village to send a man for work in the gulf.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
leereeves 5y ago
> I don't doubt death from starvation is a possibility, but probably not the majority cause. "Probably"? Is that pure speculation or are you basing it on something? A year ago Oxfam predicted "By the end of the year 12,000 people per day [worldwide] could die from hunger linked to COVID-19." https://archive.ph/zsYXy#selection-785.127-785.212 https://archive.ph/zsYXy#selection-785.127-785.212
ceilingcorner 5y ago
Starvation, depression, lack of medical care, lack of future economic prospects, etc. are only a few possible causes.
- bamboozled 5y ago
  Not to mention just general comfort, if it's 38c and you have a high fever, it's pretty hard to deal with as apposed to sitting in and air conditioned building in a nice bed.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    I imagine high air temperature would be beneficial for these with fever. You get hot for a reason. Artificially cooling yourself will not help.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - pbak 5y ago
      You are not a freezer. Your basal metabolism doesn't switch off as if it had a thermostat. So no, it's not a beneficial, it compounds, and you die faster.
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        I guess it depends how hot. But you're probably right that India goes above the point that it helpful.
      - Aboh33 5y ago
        In the past, when I had certain fevers I would go into a dry sauna or steam and it helped but I think it depends on the type of fever though.
        pbak 5y ago
ben_w 5y ago
I don’t have reason to be confident about any particular percentage. In 2019, 7.7% of the Indian population had incomes lower than $1.9 PPP. A literally undocumented homeless person in Berlin could make more by collecting forgotten drinks bottles and claiming the deposit for recycling them (this is an actual thing that happens: I’ve had beggars asking for my empty bottles since I came here). 7.7% of India in 2019 is ~105 million, so if 4% of the poorest people in India starved as a side-effect of the pandemic, that’s still 4 million excess deaths. I would be willing to believe 4 million deaths caused by any of bad harvests, loss of labour opportunities due to economic slow-downs in other countries, COVID directly, the response to COVID, or by diseases that developed economies would consider minor and easily remedied.

> I don't doubt death from starvation is a possibility, but probably not the majority cause. There is quite a possibility it is.

laumars 5y ago
A lot of the remoter and poor regions grow their own crops. What they lack is - education (understanding how to slow the spread the virus with many not even wearing a mask when looking after family members who are ill) - money (to pay for any medical care needed to treat COVID victims) And in the poorer but non-remote areas you have population density and hygiene issues. I’m not saying there aren’t going to be cases where famine is an issue. But it’s certainly not the majority killer — COVID is an effective enough killer on its own if it’s not handled carefully.
- baybal2 5y ago
  India is much less of an agricultural economy than how it appears to people in the West. People may be living in villages, but fully reliant on city jobs for income to feed themselves. I doubt even a distant relative will lend a hand to a starving person in India. The society is extremely stratified. People just a step away on the income ladder live completely separate lives.
  - laumars 5y ago
    I’m not talking about farmland. I’m talking about the basics like having a few trees that grow fruit. Yes it’s not much, but it can be the difference between life and death when you’re talking about starvation.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Most people in villages do not own any land, not even an inch of it to plant a single tree.
      - laumars 5y ago
        I didn’t say “people”, I said “regions”. Indians generally have a large and collaborative communities, which is a concept totally alien to many westerners who don’t even talk to their neighbours. This is also part of the reason COVID is so rampant there. And yes, I’m aware I’ve now reduced the discussion down to massive generalisations about a massive country with a diverse populous and I’m sorry. Obviously there will be a great many counter examples that disproves my point. But from the perspective of my friends and family who have other friends and family in poorer regions of India (and I do mean poorer by Indian standards not poorer but ours but relatively rich by Indians) what I’ve said is fair and accurate. Im sure what you’ve said is also true by virtue of the size of the country.
  - aww_dang 5y ago
    Also remittances from abroad.
    - baybal2 5y ago
      Do you realise that "poor Indian people going to work abroad" are in their prime majority not that poor by India's own standards? It takes a fortune for a village to send a man for work in the gulf.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

leereeves 5y ago

> I don't doubt death from starvation is a possibility, but probably not the majority cause. "Probably"? Is that pure speculation or are you basing it on something? A year ago Oxfam predicted "By the end of the year 12,000 people per day [worldwide] could die from hunger linked to COVID-19." https://archive.ph/zsYXy#selection-785.127-785.212 https://archive.ph/zsYXy#selection-785.127-785.212

ceilingcorner 5y ago

Starvation, depression, lack of medical care, lack of future economic prospects, etc. are only a few possible causes.

bamboozled 5y ago
Not to mention just general comfort, if it's 38c and you have a high fever, it's pretty hard to deal with as apposed to sitting in and air conditioned building in a nice bed.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  I imagine high air temperature would be beneficial for these with fever. You get hot for a reason. Artificially cooling yourself will not help.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pbak 5y ago
    You are not a freezer. Your basal metabolism doesn't switch off as if it had a thermostat. So no, it's not a beneficial, it compounds, and you die faster.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      I guess it depends how hot. But you're probably right that India goes above the point that it helpful.
    - Aboh33 5y ago
      In the past, when I had certain fevers I would go into a dry sauna or steam and it helped but I think it depends on the type of fever though.
      - pbak 5y ago

ben_w 5y ago

I don’t have reason to be confident about any particular percentage. In 2019, 7.7% of the Indian population had incomes lower than $1.9 PPP. A literally undocumented homeless person in Berlin could make more by collecting forgotten drinks bottles and claiming the deposit for recycling them (this is an actual thing that happens: I’ve had beggars asking for my empty bottles since I came here). 7.7% of India in 2019 is ~105 million, so if 4% of the poorest people in India starved as a side-effect of the pandemic, that’s still 4 million excess deaths. I would be willing to believe 4 million deaths caused by any of bad harvests, loss of labour opportunities due to economic slow-downs in other countries, COVID directly, the response to COVID, or by diseases that developed economies would consider minor and easily remedied.