4 ms·

I think it's not so different than Australia. I suppose the SES (State Emergency Service) is the equivalent of the THW, even to the point of being set up at ab

I think it's not so different than Australia. I suppose the SES (State Emergency Service) is the equivalent of the THW, even to the point of being set up at about the same time to help in case of a war but dealing with natural disasters and other incidents that are less dramatic. THW is federal but SES is state, but I'm sure that's trivial. Police are of course paid. Paramedics who ride in ambulances attending emergecies are paid - perhaps not enough. But first aid at festivals and larger events are handled by organisations like St Johns Ambulance, which are mostly volunteer-based organisations. It sounds like perhaps it is structurally different, but has the same effect. Firefighters are divided. Metropolitan firies are usually paid, but in country towns they are volunteer. I have noticed many similarities between Australia and Germany that seem surprising. Perhaps this is another one to add to that. Maybe it isn't so surprising though. It would seem like every country town couldn't have its own firefighting force if they have only very rare fires or if they are particularly seasonal.

wil421 5y ago
It’s the same in the US. Most larger cities have paid firefighters but a lot of smaller ones and volunteer. We also have the Cajun Navy in the Southeast who will help around the Gulf states after Hurricanes. They are mainly small boat owners who will aid in rescuing people stuck in their houses. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajun_Navy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajun_Navy
ben_bai 5y ago
Yes, sounds exactly like it is here in Germany. And in non-disaster times those voluntary organisations do like to put on gatherings and have a beer or 10... I guess you can add that to the list, too.
prennert 5y ago
The THW is organised similar to an army and has equipment to restore infrastructure in the event of a catastrophe (natural or man-made) and to build temporary protections if required. Similar to pioneers they can provide quick temporal solutions for power, communications (including telecoms and bridges) and water. They have a very heavy focus on technical solutions and can only provide basic medical assistance. The idea is that the THW restores access to cut-off areas for emergency services and provides protection to prevent the situation deteriorating. Other services use this infrastructure to provide medical and light technical assistance, etc. I am struggling to find references at the moment, but from what I remember, due to the history of putsches etc, in Germany the army could for a long time not be deployed internally. So while in other countries the actual army pioneers would be called in to clear roads after a flood, this was not possible in Germany. So the solution was to build a civil version of this, which as a side-effect was actually completely independent of the armed forces. Since the army cannot use these capabilities offensively, this structure helps calming twitchy neighbours after starting two world wars in a row. It is one of many examples of decentralisation of powers and capabilities in post WWII Germany. The lines between different volunteer forces and structures are probably converging globally and most countries have similar capabilities available within their volunteers. Looking up the SES, it seems to be doing a lot of things including heavy lifting and rescuing people from cars crashes. The very specialised THW would only do the first, and (volunteer?) fire services do the second. If that is worth the distinction (and this post), I dont know. But it probably leads to the THW volunteers having much pride in being called in when the equipment of the fire service is not good enough, while seeing very little action and have therefore a lot of time to support the local brewer.
- chefkoch 5y ago
  I think a main difference is, when the army is deployed internally it is never in charge. It is only a supporting role for the civil services.
- lorenzhs 5y ago
  Nitpick: THW has the capabilities (hydraulic spreaders and cutters) and trains for vehicle extrication, but it's true that the fire department usually handles these situations because they are far quicker to arrive. Since vehicle extrication is usually rather time-critical due to the injuries that are to be expected in such accidents, and the fire department has more experience with it, THW rarely does it. Some local chapters do on-call Autobahn shifts (Technische Hilfe auf Verkehrswegen), maybe there?
monkeynotes 5y ago
How do these volunteers get to their station, suited, and on the way in time for an emergency? Seems to me that a fire crew would be at work in different parts of the city and could take precious time to get equipped and on the way. There are volunteer crews here in Canada, but they are almost exclusively for smaller towns less than 10k. Not much distance to travel to their station, however a house on my street burned pretty much to the ground waiting for the volunteer crew to arrive.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  When a house is on fire badly enough to require the fire brigade, it's probably a write-off anyway. Even if the fire is put out promptly, the smoke and water damage will mean every room will need full remodelling, and the roof probably needs replacing. At that point, the cost isn't so different to just knocking it down and building again. The main benefit the fire brigade offers is the ability to prevent spread to other buildings, and assist people escaping.
  - monkeynotes 5y ago
    If the crew is so late to the scene that the house has essentially burned down: 1) Anyone trapped may end up dying or being severely injured 2) Fire spreads to neighbours (in the case I described the owners and neighbours were hosing down the next door house at their own risk.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- foepys 5y ago
  While most paid firefighters have to be out the door in 60 seconds, voluntary firefighters usually have 10 minutes to do the same. That's a trade-off that has to be made since not every small town can pay for a fully manned 24/7 fire station, especially when there are maybe 10 alarms per month. Some don't even average 1 alarm per month. The trick to compensate for that is volume. As many stations as possible with only a few vehicles (mostly a single very large truck with 2000 litres of water), so ways are short. Only when something bigger happens, multiple stations will be alerted. Some stations also specialize by having a ladder truck, a hazmat truck, etc. Volunteers should not be 10 minutes or more away from the station when on call. They can also cross on red in their private vehicle when alerted.

wil421 5y ago

It’s the same in the US. Most larger cities have paid firefighters but a lot of smaller ones and volunteer. We also have the Cajun Navy in the Southeast who will help around the Gulf states after Hurricanes. They are mainly small boat owners who will aid in rescuing people stuck in their houses. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajun_Navy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajun_Navy

ben_bai 5y ago

Yes, sounds exactly like it is here in Germany. And in non-disaster times those voluntary organisations do like to put on gatherings and have a beer or 10... I guess you can add that to the list, too.

prennert 5y ago

The THW is organised similar to an army and has equipment to restore infrastructure in the event of a catastrophe (natural or man-made) and to build temporary protections if required. Similar to pioneers they can provide quick temporal solutions for power, communications (including telecoms and bridges) and water. They have a very heavy focus on technical solutions and can only provide basic medical assistance. The idea is that the THW restores access to cut-off areas for emergency services and provides protection to prevent the situation deteriorating. Other services use this infrastructure to provide medical and light technical assistance, etc. I am struggling to find references at the moment, but from what I remember, due to the history of putsches etc, in Germany the army could for a long time not be deployed internally. So while in other countries the actual army pioneers would be called in to clear roads after a flood, this was not possible in Germany. So the solution was to build a civil version of this, which as a side-effect was actually completely independent of the armed forces. Since the army cannot use these capabilities offensively, this structure helps calming twitchy neighbours after starting two world wars in a row. It is one of many examples of decentralisation of powers and capabilities in post WWII Germany. The lines between different volunteer forces and structures are probably converging globally and most countries have similar capabilities available within their volunteers. Looking up the SES, it seems to be doing a lot of things including heavy lifting and rescuing people from cars crashes. The very specialised THW would only do the first, and (volunteer?) fire services do the second. If that is worth the distinction (and this post), I dont know. But it probably leads to the THW volunteers having much pride in being called in when the equipment of the fire service is not good enough, while seeing very little action and have therefore a lot of time to support the local brewer.

chefkoch 5y ago
I think a main difference is, when the army is deployed internally it is never in charge. It is only a supporting role for the civil services.
lorenzhs 5y ago
Nitpick: THW has the capabilities (hydraulic spreaders and cutters) and trains for vehicle extrication, but it's true that the fire department usually handles these situations because they are far quicker to arrive. Since vehicle extrication is usually rather time-critical due to the injuries that are to be expected in such accidents, and the fire department has more experience with it, THW rarely does it. Some local chapters do on-call Autobahn shifts (Technische Hilfe auf Verkehrswegen), maybe there?

monkeynotes 5y ago

How do these volunteers get to their station, suited, and on the way in time for an emergency? Seems to me that a fire crew would be at work in different parts of the city and could take precious time to get equipped and on the way. There are volunteer crews here in Canada, but they are almost exclusively for smaller towns less than 10k. Not much distance to travel to their station, however a house on my street burned pretty much to the ground waiting for the volunteer crew to arrive.

londons_explore 5y ago
When a house is on fire badly enough to require the fire brigade, it's probably a write-off anyway. Even if the fire is put out promptly, the smoke and water damage will mean every room will need full remodelling, and the roof probably needs replacing. At that point, the cost isn't so different to just knocking it down and building again. The main benefit the fire brigade offers is the ability to prevent spread to other buildings, and assist people escaping.
- monkeynotes 5y ago
  If the crew is so late to the scene that the house has essentially burned down: 1) Anyone trapped may end up dying or being severely injured 2) Fire spreads to neighbours (in the case I described the owners and neighbours were hosing down the next door house at their own risk.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
foepys 5y ago
While most paid firefighters have to be out the door in 60 seconds, voluntary firefighters usually have 10 minutes to do the same. That's a trade-off that has to be made since not every small town can pay for a fully manned 24/7 fire station, especially when there are maybe 10 alarms per month. Some don't even average 1 alarm per month. The trick to compensate for that is volume. As many stations as possible with only a few vehicles (mostly a single very large truck with 2000 litres of water), so ways are short. Only when something bigger happens, multiple stations will be alerted. Some stations also specialize by having a ladder truck, a hazmat truck, etc. Volunteers should not be 10 minutes or more away from the station when on call. They can also cross on red in their private vehicle when alerted.