7 ms·
Will Sylvia Plath always be defined by her death?
- ProjectArcturis 5y agoYes, just like Emily Dickinson's poetry will be defined by her isolation, and Vincent Van Gogh's art by his mental illness. Our cultural interpretation of an artist's work, particularly for those with iconically unique lives, is inextricable from how they lived.
- willcipriano 5y agoBeethoven and his deafness is another example. His condition profoundly effected his music, listen to Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement, when played by the right pianist you can feel his loss and frustration.
- SavantIdiot 5y agoThat's interesting because I think his Ninth (most famous for his use of the poem Ode to Joy) is just incredible, well, so does everyone else in the world too I guess. But he was already at his peak deafness in 1812, six years before the Ninth. I always thought of it as a big ol' F-U to his deafness. On the other hand, perhaps the Moonlight Sonata, in 1802, was sad because that's when he started to lose his hearing, and by 1818 he had accepted it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- JonathanMerklin 5y agoI think this depends on the artist (though perhaps you're already conceding this point with your "particularly for" qualifier). Caravaggio had masterful control of lighting and form, but was a murderer (manslaughterer). Someone who knows of DFW's interactions with Mary Karr would likely interpret Infinite Jest the same way as one who doesn't. I don't think ESR's politics have any bearings on cathedrals vis-à-vis bazaars.
- thatjoeoverthr 5y ago“Woolf's novels and Kane's plays are dubbed as being manifestations of mental illness …” I’ve never heard this of Woolf but I’m now reminded of repeated descriptions of death by drowning. My favorite example is in Jacob’s Room; a scene of some people at a party is interrupted suddenly with a description of men drowning in a World War I naval battle before returning to the scene. To The Lighthouse has similar fragments and stories. These are two of my favorite novels. If I accidentally notice she did go on to drown herself, am I doing a sexism? Reading contemporary English press is so tiresome. “Remember how you noticed a thing while reading Virginia Woolf novels? You may be a misogynist!”
- lovemenot 5y agoYour personal feelings to art are just that. Yours. Especially something as sensitive as poetry or Woolfe's novels. On the other hand, this article is about society's collective understanding of an artist or a class of artists (female). It raises valid questions, which are orthogonal to yours or my reading of their art.
- thatjoeoverthr 5y agoThe author claims that society collectively feels something, that Woolf is defined by her death - based on what? - her gut feel that unspecified others feel in some way. Who? Maybe she has encountered it. I haven’t. She offers nothing to back up the claim, so I am happy to dismiss it with equal carelessness, because the claim is used to jump to the next claim, sexism, which is effectively an accusation of malice. It’s not malice if I noticed something noticeable.
- elliekelly 5y ago> am I doing a sexism? Is it necessary to be so dismissive of a serious topic?
- at_a_remove 5y agoGood question. Yes, sometimes it is necessary, if that topic is relentlessly pounded into you as the parent commenter suggests. Hearing about something again and again is tiresome. Some people can and will grow irritated with that. And so they push back. Being mildly dismissive is probably the least you could hope for in that circumstance.
- zabzonk 5y ago> The 2003 biopic Sylvia, starring Gwyneth Paltrow as Plath and Daniel Craig as Ted Hughes Wow - never heard of this one! Somehow, I have a hard time imagining Pepper Potts and James Bond as Sylvia and Ted.
- cafard 5y agoDunno. Will John Berryman or Randall Jarrell, or Anne Sexton, or Breece D'J Pancake? Given that more readers are likely to have heard of Plath than of the four just mentioned, I'd say, No, not really. There's a reason that we remember Plath and Stevie Smith better, and that is their poetry.
- dmurray 5y agoWhat about Kurt Cobain, Buddy Holly, Tupac? All get remembered disproportionately for their deaths. Not just because they died young - you could pick equally famous artists who died young but whose life is more famous than their death. Try Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley or Hank Williams. I don't see anything that clearly links the artists "defined by their death". But despite the BBC's efforts, it's probably not sexism.
- sokoloff 5y agoI wonder how much of that is generational. For me, Kurt Cobain’s suicide or Tupac’s murder don’t overshadow their music. Buddy Holly I know about more from Don McLean’s song, so his death does overshadow his music, but the opposite is likely true for my parents because they lived with his music in a way that I never did.
- moate 5y ago>>For me, Kurt Cobain’s suicide or Tupac’s murder don’t overshadow their music. I don't know what "overshadow" means here. They were both considered top artists in their genres, and their untimely deaths are massive parts of their legacy. I don't think people know them more for their deaths than their songs, but I feel like there are very few people who would consider themselves fans of Nirvana that don't know about how Cobain's mental health/relationship affected and influence their sound or who love Tupac and don't know about the East vs. West coast feud in rap at the time and Pac's place in it. I feel the exact opposite about Buddy Holly. He died in a tragic plane crash. I don't know what that means about his legacy other than "he died in a plane crash". It obviously didn't influence his art other than him not being able to make any more (I'm 36 fwiw.)
- mudita 5y agoI really like the poetry of Sylvia Plath, the powerful, but sometimes cryptic imagery and how she plays with language, the use of alliterations.... Sorry, that's very generic things to say about poet, but there's something in her poems that resonates with me - not necessarily on the level of content, but in how she writes - and right now I can't express better what it is. Maybe a bit off topic, but can anyone recommend other poets, which someone who loves Plath might like?
- hmsshagatsea 5y agoShe killed herself while her children were home. I’d say that’s the reason.
- ajankelo 5y agoIf anyone has the chance to visit Hampshire College they have her diary in the rare book collection. One of the most amazing visits to a library was when I got the chance to hold it and read it.
- 1MachineElf 5y agoSpeaking for myself, it was sometime in 2011 when I first heard of Sylvia Plath. Never knew she was dead until this headline 10 years later. She's not defined by her death for me, anyways.
- cjaybo 5y agoI think the headline is referring to how people who are familiar with Plath think of her. Not sure how relevant your lack of familiarity is...
- lovemenot 5y agoNot aplogising for society's understanding of how relvance to art vs artists' life is different between the sexes. The article is right and society can and should be plastic. However, the single relevant data point that for me has been most surprising and most enduring is this: Of all the female humans that have ever lived, 80% have living descendents today. For males, the equivalent number is 40%. If this data is factually correct (sorry I don't have sources right now), then it goes a long way to explaining though not justifying, why people tend to focus more on early death in females: "What an unnecessary waste." Edit: I still don't have a very strong source for this data, but the discussion here is relevant. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/cHEQSEPz4eipGHFy9/differential-reproduction-for-men-and-women https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/cHEQSEPz4eipGHFy9/differenti...
- iiv 5y agoYes, no one focuses on or is sad that Tupac, John Lennon, Kafka, Percy Bysshe Shelley or John Keats died young...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- xyzzy21 5y agoYes because I don't see her coming out of retirement to do anything else to change it.
- France_is_bacon 5y agoOf course. In the same way that Isadora Duncan will be defined by her death.