7 ms·
Fat Fritz is not the Only Ripoff and now ChessBase is Getting Sued
- cmsefton 5y agoRelated discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27896386 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27896386
- DaiPlusPlus 5y agoThat thread is for ChessBase. How does Fat Fritz come into this? (Pardon my ignorance)
- PeterisP 5y agoFat Fritz is a product that ChessBase sells.
- Pandavonium 5y agoChessbase owns Fat Fritz.
- weird-eye-issue 5y agoThe very first sentence of this article is "The developers of the popular chess engine Stockfish formally filed a lawsuit against ChessBase GmbH this week."
- sam_goody 5y agoYay! The importance of proving that open source licenses are still licenses, and are enforceable, cannot be overstated.
- numlock86 5y agoManagement: But look, the sources are right there! I know because I downloaded them yesterday! Don't tell me it's not available!
- matheusmoreira 5y agoThis is also why intellectual property is such a mess.
- Maksadbek 5y agoThe ChessBase software is very ugly and overpriced. Moreover it only works on PC. But heck, there is no better software than this :/
- bsedlm 5y ago> the Stockfish devs have ultimately revoked ChessBase’s right to distribute Stockfish and derivative software but this is not the goal they should have; this is the opposite of the ideal of open source and free (GPL) software. I get that they're angry and desperate that they cannot force ChessBase play along with the free and open software movement but going all the way to "revoking" is going in the opposite direction of the intended goals of open source. Shouldn't they be trying to force ChessBase to release their code??
- Dobbs 5y agoThis is explicitly included in the GPL as a punishment that can be executed against those that continually refuse to correctly follow the rules. If someone doesn't want to follow the rules the answer isn't to force them to play and then wait for them to break them again. At somepoint you just have to say no.
- forty 5y agoThey kind of doing that. Publishing the code would allow them to get their license back I think.
- FemmeAndroid 5y agoIsn’t that what’s been attempted for years unsuccessfully? From my limited understanding ChessBase has been warned and informed they’re breaking the license for years.
- radarsat1 5y agoI think revoking the license is the only tool in the toolbox that can force ChessBase to release their code. My understanding is that it is the action taken once it is determined that they are violating the terms of the agreement. It's the basis of the legal battle. If you can't revoke the license when the terms are violated, you haven't got much of a license, have you?
- dominicjj 5y agoYou're somewhat confused. They can absolutely force ChessBase to 'play along' since it has no right whatsoever to distribute someone else's copyrighted code without a license.
- sillysaurusx 5y agoThere are a few things wrong with Stockfish's claims. Here's an analysis from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27900887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27900887 1. It's legal to sell Stockfish -- to "rip it off" -- as long as you're compliant with GPL v3: https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/4753/is-it-legal-to-monetize-from-someone-elses-software https://opensource.stackexchange.com/questions/4753/is-it-le... 2. Fat Fritz seems compliant with GPL v3. They've released their code. 3. Stockfish claims they haven't released their NN weights. But that claim makes no sense. They distribute the weights with every copy of Fat Fritz. Otherwise, the product wouldn't work. 4. Stockfish can't unilaterally terminate someone's license to the code. GPL allows people to remedy violations, and Fat Fritz did. Saying "They didn't release their NN weights" doesn't seem to be true, and they almost seem to be hinging their entire case on this one point.
- dominicjj 5y ago>4. Stockfish can't unilaterally terminate someone's license to the code. Sure it can. It's the copyright holder. >they almost seem to be hinging their entire case on this one point. It has nothing to do with the network weights. Fat Fritz and Houdini are derivative works of Stockfish. Fat Fritz may be compliant with the GPL 3.0 (after being reported for violation) but Houdini certainly isn't.
- sillysaurusx 5y agoThere's a 30 day window to cure violations: https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/blob/3597f1942ec6f2cfbd50b905683739b0900ff5dd/Copying.txt#L422-L427 https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/blob/3597f19...
- eertami 5y agoThey said in their blog post that they've already tried to remedy this with no success.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]