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I'm ok with this. Ideally private persons should have an allowance of around 5.000€ (or so) per month in privacy coin usage, where an invoice is the only tracea

I'm ok with this. Ideally private persons should have an allowance of around 5.000€ (or so) per month in privacy coin usage, where an invoice is the only traceable thing, and everything above that amount should be fully transparent to the authorities (IRS), and pseudoanonymously visible to the public, for journalists to be detectable. Buy a car? -> IRS can see it. Buy a home? -> IRS can see it. Buy a Smartphone? -> None of anyone's business. Companies on the other hand should have no such privacy allowance, unless they request and register it with the government and are forced to report any transaction made by them, where the level of detail of the transaction may vary (ie to hide the recipient of a weapons transaction, governments wouldn't approve otherwise, since they like to do shady stuff). The more detail is hidden, the more suspect the transaction will become, but will not appear anywhere public. I'm not sure how feasible this is, but this would be somewhat similar to the distinction of cash and electronic transactions, with far better control on the amount of spendable cash and a good visibility of the transactions to the IRS.

linspace 5y ago
Another approach I have seen is giving privacy to the spender but not the receiver of money: https://taler.net/en/index.html https://taler.net/en/index.html
mjevans 5y ago
The issue with any 'cap' is that the batches just get sharded to be under that cap and you get the 'working from home' style mix of scam and money laundering. As the sibling links, the answer is anonymity for spenders, but not for recipients of money. This also, ideally, blocks moral panics and instead forces law enforcement to go after cash flow into 'bad activities' and actors.
- qwertox 5y ago
  Sure it will get sharded. But this is a pattern which can be detected, specially if you're not using your opaque money on stuff like groceries and normal day to day stuff. If you're constantly maxing out your cap and buying normal stuff without that privacy-enabled money, it may well raise eyebrows in the IRS. It's not a per-transaction cap, but a monthly allowance.
betwixthewires 5y ago
IMO, I should be able to spend a zillion dollars on whatever I want, as long as I'm not buying people it's none of anyone's business. The way to make sure everyone pays taxes is to tax property, or sales, or do a value added tax. Want a progressive tax? Higher taxes on second properties, or luxury items. Now you don't have any reason to need to know what everyone in the world has or does with their money.
- qwertox 5y ago
  Don't you think it's a bit odd that you have a zillion of dollars to spend? What makes you so much more wealthy than the rest? How did you obtain all this money? Are you sure it is clean money? What makes you so afraid of showing others what really big things you are spending that money on, won't they know anyway? Actually, you're just showing it to the IRS. Do you want to hide something from the IRS? So you are extremely wealthy and don't want the IRS to see on what you spend a zillion of dollars on? I'm pretty sure that Donald Trump would love this as well.
  - betwixthewires 5y ago
    If it's not clean money bust me for the crime, not having the money. No, I don't want the IRS to see what I spend a zillion dollars on, I don't want the IRS to exist. The comment you're replying to is mostly a sketch of how you pay taxes without some government agency sniffing your butthole. It isn't about being afraid, it is about what's my business and what's your business. You can't browbeat people into agreeing with you by comparing them to evil bad man.

linspace 5y ago

Another approach I have seen is giving privacy to the spender but not the receiver of money: https://taler.net/en/index.html https://taler.net/en/index.html

mjevans 5y ago

The issue with any 'cap' is that the batches just get sharded to be under that cap and you get the 'working from home' style mix of scam and money laundering. As the sibling links, the answer is anonymity for spenders, but not for recipients of money. This also, ideally, blocks moral panics and instead forces law enforcement to go after cash flow into 'bad activities' and actors.

qwertox 5y ago
Sure it will get sharded. But this is a pattern which can be detected, specially if you're not using your opaque money on stuff like groceries and normal day to day stuff. If you're constantly maxing out your cap and buying normal stuff without that privacy-enabled money, it may well raise eyebrows in the IRS. It's not a per-transaction cap, but a monthly allowance.

betwixthewires 5y ago

IMO, I should be able to spend a zillion dollars on whatever I want, as long as I'm not buying people it's none of anyone's business. The way to make sure everyone pays taxes is to tax property, or sales, or do a value added tax. Want a progressive tax? Higher taxes on second properties, or luxury items. Now you don't have any reason to need to know what everyone in the world has or does with their money.

qwertox 5y ago
Don't you think it's a bit odd that you have a zillion of dollars to spend? What makes you so much more wealthy than the rest? How did you obtain all this money? Are you sure it is clean money? What makes you so afraid of showing others what really big things you are spending that money on, won't they know anyway? Actually, you're just showing it to the IRS. Do you want to hide something from the IRS? So you are extremely wealthy and don't want the IRS to see on what you spend a zillion of dollars on? I'm pretty sure that Donald Trump would love this as well.
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  If it's not clean money bust me for the crime, not having the money. No, I don't want the IRS to see what I spend a zillion dollars on, I don't want the IRS to exist. The comment you're replying to is mostly a sketch of how you pay taxes without some government agency sniffing your butthole. It isn't about being afraid, it is about what's my business and what's your business. You can't browbeat people into agreeing with you by comparing them to evil bad man.