4 ms·

> "At this point, I'm not sure which one I find more scary." There will always be scofflaws and pranksters. Indeed for our way of life to be assured, they mus

by roc 15y ago

> "At this point, I'm not sure which one I find more scary." There will always be scofflaws and pranksters. Indeed for our way of life to be assured, they must be able to exist. The ever-growing reach of the military-espionage-industrial complex is the only real threat.

jeremyarussell 15y ago
I have to find myself agreeing with this, the fact that these individuals (FBI members, govt agencies in general.) are funded beyond the means of normal individuals and given resources that money can't buy. (well I'm sure enough of it can.) Gives them an edge that many people can't fight against. They can do whatever they want with impunity. Now I can't say that opening up a server and releasing all it's users passwords is right, or fair, but there comes a time in war where there must be casualties. In this war of Anon VS govt/corp, Anonymous must use unfair tactics, if only to level out the playing field. That all said, this all reeks of a cold civil war, maybe something will come out of it, maybe nothing will. I'll just keep doing what I do, solving issues of non-freedom the way I can, one person at a time. A lot could be done if people just acted better towards each other. But I think right now that's too much to ask of us(humans).
- walru 15y ago
  The fact that we're even able to have these thoughtful discussions means that at least we're evolving as a species. For the sake of our survival, may we eventually get to a point where people are judged more for how they treat others, rather than what they are able to purchase.
  - cpeterso 15y ago
    Cory Doctorow's novel Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom, "whuffie" is the ephemeral, reputation-based currency. The book describes a post-scarcity economy: All the necessities (and most of the luxuries) of life are free. Whuffie has replaced money, providing a motivation for people to do useful and creative things. A person's Whuffie is a general measurement of his or her overall reputation and is gained (or lost) according to a person's favorable (or unfavorable) actions. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Whuffie https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Whuffie
    - zer0her0 15y ago
      That's the one book I haven't read by Cory, I wonder if one can modify bitcoins into this(yea i had to bring up bitcoin, it's hacker news req right?)
nathanb 15y ago
The scary part isn't that scofflaws and pranksters exist, which (as you say) is practically inevitable. But what if we as a society may some day depend on them to preserve our freedom? Viewing my world in terms of black and white has always been more of a comforting illusion than a reasonable approximation of reality. I realize this. But either these self-styled hacktivists are rationalizing their hooliganism with noble-sounding platitudes or they honestly believe that their way is the best way to fight against corporate corruption and government abuse of its own constituents. If the former, it's becoming less obvious. And the latter is a frightening thought indeed. One day I might have to choose between a government agency whose actions have transcended public accountability (as in the Instapaper raid), corporations who will gladly sacrifice me on the altar of their own convenience (as in the Peter Adekeye case), or a capricious band of anonymous malcontents who might fight for my rights or might hold me up to public mockery and exploitation "for the lulz". But what really scares me is that the choice will be made for me.
eric-hu 15y ago
First time I've seen that phrase with the 'espionage' added in there. Makes perfect sense though, espionage should have been part of that term decades ago

by roc 15y ago

jeremyarussell 15y ago

I have to find myself agreeing with this, the fact that these individuals (FBI members, govt agencies in general.) are funded beyond the means of normal individuals and given resources that money can't buy. (well I'm sure enough of it can.) Gives them an edge that many people can't fight against. They can do whatever they want with impunity. Now I can't say that opening up a server and releasing all it's users passwords is right, or fair, but there comes a time in war where there must be casualties. In this war of Anon VS govt/corp, Anonymous must use unfair tactics, if only to level out the playing field. That all said, this all reeks of a cold civil war, maybe something will come out of it, maybe nothing will. I'll just keep doing what I do, solving issues of non-freedom the way I can, one person at a time. A lot could be done if people just acted better towards each other. But I think right now that's too much to ask of us(humans).

walru 15y ago
The fact that we're even able to have these thoughtful discussions means that at least we're evolving as a species. For the sake of our survival, may we eventually get to a point where people are judged more for how they treat others, rather than what they are able to purchase.
- cpeterso 15y ago
  Cory Doctorow's novel Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom, "whuffie" is the ephemeral, reputation-based currency. The book describes a post-scarcity economy: All the necessities (and most of the luxuries) of life are free. Whuffie has replaced money, providing a motivation for people to do useful and creative things. A person's Whuffie is a general measurement of his or her overall reputation and is gained (or lost) according to a person's favorable (or unfavorable) actions. https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Whuffie https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Whuffie
  - zer0her0 15y ago
    That's the one book I haven't read by Cory, I wonder if one can modify bitcoins into this(yea i had to bring up bitcoin, it's hacker news req right?)

nathanb 15y ago

The scary part isn't that scofflaws and pranksters exist, which (as you say) is practically inevitable. But what if we as a society may some day depend on them to preserve our freedom? Viewing my world in terms of black and white has always been more of a comforting illusion than a reasonable approximation of reality. I realize this. But either these self-styled hacktivists are rationalizing their hooliganism with noble-sounding platitudes or they honestly believe that their way is the best way to fight against corporate corruption and government abuse of its own constituents. If the former, it's becoming less obvious. And the latter is a frightening thought indeed. One day I might have to choose between a government agency whose actions have transcended public accountability (as in the Instapaper raid), corporations who will gladly sacrifice me on the altar of their own convenience (as in the Peter Adekeye case), or a capricious band of anonymous malcontents who might fight for my rights or might hold me up to public mockery and exploitation "for the lulz". But what really scares me is that the choice will be made for me.

eric-hu 15y ago

First time I've seen that phrase with the 'espionage' added in there. Makes perfect sense though, espionage should have been part of that term decades ago