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The issue with psychedelic is not (so much) about personal responsibility. It's very much about the wrongful classification of the drugs themselves based on how

by mekoka 5y ago

The issue with psychedelic is not (so much) about personal responsibility. It's very much about the wrongful classification of the drugs themselves based on how they tend to alter cognition and behavior. I don't mean any offense, but by squeezing crack in the same bag as psychedelics, your comment exhibits the exact misunderstanding that led to the latter's prohibition. Good people on crack are more likely to do bad things over time. Bad people on mushrooms are much less likely to be worse than their usual selves (based on studies).

lifeisstillgood 5y ago
There are (in my limited understanding) too many confounding issues to be able to say that its ok to get off your head regulars with drug X but not with drug Y. In my (again limited) understanding, saying "all these are bad for us long-term (to wildly varying degrees), but it seems likely that other factors (childhood, mental illness, social position, economic, family and social) all play as important if not more important roles. Lets unban them if they have some medicinal purposes, but lets not pretend that having mushrooms and amphetamines marketed by the same socially-minded people pushing Marlboros for decades is going to make the world a better place, and please lets not think that if we strike a blow for freedom, its ok to stop worrying about all those other confounding issues. (But I concede its a lot easier to legislatively fix banned psychedelics than to fix childhood abuse, poverty and mental health. But that's why we pay government the big taxes, to take on the big jobs. )
- pas 5y ago
  > mushrooms and amphetamines marketed by the same socially-minded people pushing Marlboros for decades is going to make the world a better place, They'd be better regulated than the fucking cartels. The problems with dose would come up quickly, and you could make it available in X mg shots in liquid form. Add some ugly taste, like alcohol has. > to take on the big jobs Yeah, absolutely! Also would you be interested in acquiring a really cheap and famous bridge? Or perhaps the Eiffel tower? /s So currently it seems we pay taxes to keep the darkness at bay. Maybe. Maaaybe after half the world stops sucking fascism's dick we might finally get to spend resources to properly address those big ticket items.
pmoriarty 5y ago
"Good people on crack are more likely to do bad things over time. Bad people on mushrooms are much less likely to be worse than their usual selves (based on studies)." Of all drugs, legal and illegal, the drug that is most associated with violence is alcohol. Yet most people don't get in to a moral panic over alcohol anymore, as they used to during the original Prohibition of the 1920's. We've learned from the original, failed prohibition of the '20s. We understand that when people abuse alcohol it is a medical issue, not something to throw people in jail for. We need to learn the same lesson about all the other drugs, almost all of which are far less harmful than alcohol.
- mekoka 5y ago
  Again, the current issue with psychedelics is not a debate on Drugs with a capital D. It's rather about the mischaracterization of psychedelics. Because of their mind altering properties, psychedelics are continually conflated with other drugs, simply because we like big umbrellas. The reason they're currently being brought out of prohibition is responsible and compelling research that is demonstrating that their benefits heavily outweigh their harmfulness. If you want to legalize crack, then responsible and compelling research should probably also do the same. If you want to pin alcohol against crack when it comes to harmfulness, note that alcohol is also legal and thus more prevalent. https://bibliography.maps.org/bibliography/default/resource/15836 https://bibliography.maps.org/bibliography/default/resource/... See graph on page 4. Heroin and crack are still illegal, yet already significantly harmful. Let's not assume that legalizing them would keep the standing the same.
- partomniscient 5y ago
  They're not easy direct comparisons though. Alcohol personality changes are (now) fairly simple compared with the wide variety of substances and possible behaviours. The whole approach is wrong. Criminalise the behaviour, not the drugs and then people can work out which drugs they're compatible with. Some people are great when drunk, some are violent arseholes. The same is true for other substances.
- adminscoffee 5y ago
  let's bring back the original coca-cola, it's crazy to think that some of our grandparents and great grandparents use to drink coke as a teenage/child. but yes, prohibition has caused more pain and suffering in the world than any war combined. it's a shame how much money we waste on locking up people who already feel beaten down by life, a lot of drug addicts are people trying to self medicate

by mekoka 5y ago

lifeisstillgood 5y ago

There are (in my limited understanding) too many confounding issues to be able to say that its ok to get off your head regulars with drug X but not with drug Y. In my (again limited) understanding, saying "all these are bad for us long-term (to wildly varying degrees), but it seems likely that other factors (childhood, mental illness, social position, economic, family and social) all play as important if not more important roles. Lets unban them if they have some medicinal purposes, but lets not pretend that having mushrooms and amphetamines marketed by the same socially-minded people pushing Marlboros for decades is going to make the world a better place, and please lets not think that if we strike a blow for freedom, its ok to stop worrying about all those other confounding issues. (But I concede its a lot easier to legislatively fix banned psychedelics than to fix childhood abuse, poverty and mental health. But that's why we pay government the big taxes, to take on the big jobs. )

pas 5y ago
> mushrooms and amphetamines marketed by the same socially-minded people pushing Marlboros for decades is going to make the world a better place, They'd be better regulated than the fucking cartels. The problems with dose would come up quickly, and you could make it available in X mg shots in liquid form. Add some ugly taste, like alcohol has. > to take on the big jobs Yeah, absolutely! Also would you be interested in acquiring a really cheap and famous bridge? Or perhaps the Eiffel tower? /s So currently it seems we pay taxes to keep the darkness at bay. Maybe. Maaaybe after half the world stops sucking fascism's dick we might finally get to spend resources to properly address those big ticket items.

pmoriarty 5y ago

"Good people on crack are more likely to do bad things over time. Bad people on mushrooms are much less likely to be worse than their usual selves (based on studies)." Of all drugs, legal and illegal, the drug that is most associated with violence is alcohol. Yet most people don't get in to a moral panic over alcohol anymore, as they used to during the original Prohibition of the 1920's. We've learned from the original, failed prohibition of the '20s. We understand that when people abuse alcohol it is a medical issue, not something to throw people in jail for. We need to learn the same lesson about all the other drugs, almost all of which are far less harmful than alcohol.

mekoka 5y ago
Again, the current issue with psychedelics is not a debate on Drugs with a capital D. It's rather about the mischaracterization of psychedelics. Because of their mind altering properties, psychedelics are continually conflated with other drugs, simply because we like big umbrellas. The reason they're currently being brought out of prohibition is responsible and compelling research that is demonstrating that their benefits heavily outweigh their harmfulness. If you want to legalize crack, then responsible and compelling research should probably also do the same. If you want to pin alcohol against crack when it comes to harmfulness, note that alcohol is also legal and thus more prevalent. https://bibliography.maps.org/bibliography/default/resource/15836 https://bibliography.maps.org/bibliography/default/resource/... See graph on page 4. Heroin and crack are still illegal, yet already significantly harmful. Let's not assume that legalizing them would keep the standing the same.
partomniscient 5y ago
They're not easy direct comparisons though. Alcohol personality changes are (now) fairly simple compared with the wide variety of substances and possible behaviours. The whole approach is wrong. Criminalise the behaviour, not the drugs and then people can work out which drugs they're compatible with. Some people are great when drunk, some are violent arseholes. The same is true for other substances.
adminscoffee 5y ago
let's bring back the original coca-cola, it's crazy to think that some of our grandparents and great grandparents use to drink coke as a teenage/child. but yes, prohibition has caused more pain and suffering in the world than any war combined. it's a shame how much money we waste on locking up people who already feel beaten down by life, a lot of drug addicts are people trying to self medicate