4 ms·

> a company transferring crypto-assets for a customer would be obliged to include their name, address, date of birth and account number, and the name of the rec

> a company transferring crypto-assets for a customer would be obliged to include their name, address, date of birth and account number, and the name of the recipient guess what, Mr. Commissionaire? Bitcoin isn't a company and you don't need to ask companies to transfer crypto assets edit: this just shows how little power they have over the network, so they will tyrannise the middlemen instead

Barrin92 5y ago
nope but if you want to actually convert your crypto into any good or service or currency that doesn't happen to be crypto, you're going to be rendered legible. And that alone is going to make tax evasion or laundering a lot harder, and probably makes it a way less attractive asset for criminals.
- nybble41 5y ago
  On the contrary, nothing has really changed here. If you're moving your crypto to an exchange in order to sell it and withdraw euros or dollars or whatever, guess what—you're already in the system. These rules already applied due to the interaction with the traditional financial system when you withdraw your balance. Now the exchange will be required to do the same reporting on the crypto side, but they already had that data. The same goes for moving traditional currency into an exchange to buy crypto. The only areas really affected by the new rules would be exchanges which only involve crypto (e.g. BTC for ETH), direct transfers between customers on an exchange or between exchanges—which aren't actually crypto transactions to begin with even if they are denominated in crypto units—and withdrawals to addresses controlled by parties other than the account holder, which many exchanges didn't permit anyway. (Withdraw to your own unhosted wallet first.) It's still a huge invasion of privacy etc., completely unjustified and unethical etc., but let's not get too worked up over what seems to me like a fairly predictable shift in which businesses are subjected to KYC/AML regulations. The more reputable exchanges have basically been assuming that these rules applied to them all along. Unhosted wallets and direct transfers between them are unaffected since they don't involve a Crypto-Asset Service Provider. Centralized exchanges were always an awkward stop-gap measure in any case, not a fundamental part of the crypto ecosystem. If this encourages people to trade directly through the decentralized network and avoid CASPs wherever possible, so much the better.
tick_tock_tick 5y ago
> Bitcoin isn't a company and you don't need to ask companies to transfer crypto assets You don't need to ask a company to commit a crime you're still going to get punished..... The vast majority of EU citizen are using some kind of exchange as an onramp and offramp. Those exchanges will do KYC and happily turn over any addresses they send/receive crypto too.
- Sargos 5y ago
  This has a limited time window of being effective as exchanges are a temporary bridge between the traditional system and the crypto economy. In a decade or so you will likely be able to do most things on crypto rails and there will be few choke points left where KYC can be enforced.
- ulzeraj 5y ago
  There are Swiss services like https://getbittr.com https://getbittr.com where you just provide an e-mail, your IBAN and an address. You need o sign the address proving that address belong to you but no personal data is sent to the service. Then can then set a recurring payment for their account and you automatically receive the BTC in your address. I say this is a good compromise that should make people a bit more satisfied. You didn't needed to send a face mug to the Exchange and on the other end the bank that holds your IBAN already KYCd you into oblivion.
thesz 5y ago
Exactly. This shows how much power they have over the network, because network is comprised of the middle man.

Barrin92 5y ago

nope but if you want to actually convert your crypto into any good or service or currency that doesn't happen to be crypto, you're going to be rendered legible. And that alone is going to make tax evasion or laundering a lot harder, and probably makes it a way less attractive asset for criminals.

nybble41 5y ago
On the contrary, nothing has really changed here. If you're moving your crypto to an exchange in order to sell it and withdraw euros or dollars or whatever, guess what—you're already in the system. These rules already applied due to the interaction with the traditional financial system when you withdraw your balance. Now the exchange will be required to do the same reporting on the crypto side, but they already had that data. The same goes for moving traditional currency into an exchange to buy crypto. The only areas really affected by the new rules would be exchanges which only involve crypto (e.g. BTC for ETH), direct transfers between customers on an exchange or between exchanges—which aren't actually crypto transactions to begin with even if they are denominated in crypto units—and withdrawals to addresses controlled by parties other than the account holder, which many exchanges didn't permit anyway. (Withdraw to your own unhosted wallet first.) It's still a huge invasion of privacy etc., completely unjustified and unethical etc., but let's not get too worked up over what seems to me like a fairly predictable shift in which businesses are subjected to KYC/AML regulations. The more reputable exchanges have basically been assuming that these rules applied to them all along. Unhosted wallets and direct transfers between them are unaffected since they don't involve a Crypto-Asset Service Provider. Centralized exchanges were always an awkward stop-gap measure in any case, not a fundamental part of the crypto ecosystem. If this encourages people to trade directly through the decentralized network and avoid CASPs wherever possible, so much the better.

tick_tock_tick 5y ago

> Bitcoin isn't a company and you don't need to ask companies to transfer crypto assets You don't need to ask a company to commit a crime you're still going to get punished..... The vast majority of EU citizen are using some kind of exchange as an onramp and offramp. Those exchanges will do KYC and happily turn over any addresses they send/receive crypto too.

Sargos 5y ago
This has a limited time window of being effective as exchanges are a temporary bridge between the traditional system and the crypto economy. In a decade or so you will likely be able to do most things on crypto rails and there will be few choke points left where KYC can be enforced.
ulzeraj 5y ago
There are Swiss services like https://getbittr.com https://getbittr.com where you just provide an e-mail, your IBAN and an address. You need o sign the address proving that address belong to you but no personal data is sent to the service. Then can then set a recurring payment for their account and you automatically receive the BTC in your address. I say this is a good compromise that should make people a bit more satisfied. You didn't needed to send a face mug to the Exchange and on the other end the bank that holds your IBAN already KYCd you into oblivion.

thesz 5y ago

Exactly. This shows how much power they have over the network, because network is comprised of the middle man.