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>> The new rules would also prohibit providing anonymous crypto-asset wallets. Where should I send my Ledger to so i can be a good, obedient citizen and be com

>> The new rules would also prohibit providing anonymous crypto-asset wallets. Where should I send my Ledger to so i can be a good, obedient citizen and be compliant with this law?

SavantIdiot 5y ago
Pretty easy actually: let me give you 0.01BTC, then I'll know what you spend your money on. Forever.
- arthurcolle 5y ago
  This is not right - pretty much all modern wallet software generates brand new key pairs each time there is a transaction, thereby creating a new address. The unspent utxo's (unspent transaction outputs) are then sent to the new address and the old address can (but shouldn't) be used.
  - beervirus 5y ago
    But anyone can see the new address to which the utxo's were sent...
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - lxgr 5y ago
    This amounts to little more than trivial obfuscation in practice. The UTXO "privacy" model of Bitcoin has never worked out, and more modern cryptocurrencies aren‘t even attempting anything like it anymore.
    - SnowProblem 5y ago
      In practice, Bitcoin's privacy model was never even tried though. BTC fees are so prohibitively expensive that no wallet or user would generate more UTXOs or transactions than they have to, making it trivial to trace, yes. But if BTC had been allowed to scale like it was originally designed, then wallets would not fear inputting and outputting potentially hundreds of UTXOs in every transaction of varying amounts so that it becomes practically impossible to trace. On Bitcoin SV, basically a high-scale version of Bitcoin, there are today several wallets taking smarter approaches to privacy. HandCash's Output Bills [1] for example splits outputs into fixed denominations like cash, and Paymail [2] is a email-like addressing scheme to avoid sharing addresses publicly. I'm sure more approaches will be tried too now that wallets have some freedom to experiment. [1] https://handcash.medium.com/introducing-output-bills-a-coin-splitting-technique-for-increasing-the-privacy-of-handcash-360322fbe1db https://handcash.medium.com/introducing-output-bills-a-coin-... [2] https://bsvalias.org/ https://bsvalias.org/
      - Stevvo 5y ago
        CSW is a fraud. https://github.com/vbuterin/cult-of-craig https://github.com/vbuterin/cult-of-craig
      - meowface 5y ago
        Even if it were technologically superior in some ways, the fact that it's made and run by a "Q"-like LARPer/fraudster figure makes it dead on arrival.
        SnowProblem 5y ago
        Been hearing this since 2018. Meanwhile - Cryptofights alone did 600k transactions yesterday https://bsvdata.com https://bsvdata.com - Hundreds of independent games, social media, wallets, exchanges, tokens, artwork, hackathons in general creativity. https://metastore.app https://metastore.app - Solid user and developer experiences. https://handcash.io https://handcash.io, https://moneybutton.com https://moneybutton.com, https://cryptofights.io https://cryptofights.io, https://run.network https://run.network - Thousands globally who fly to attend conferences, before covid at least https://coingeekconference.com/en/past-conferences/london-feb-2020 https://coingeekconference.com/en/past-conferences/london-fe... - Advanced research going into scaling Bitcoin. 50K tps demonstrated publicly, more privately. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3As9-9uSXs&t=224s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3As9-9uSXs&t=224s - Active community, spread across Slack, Youtube, Streamanity, Twitter, Telegram, and others. Tons of different personalities and beliefs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAPRWOwam20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAPRWOwam20 Clearly dead though.
        katbyte 5y ago
        you didn't address `"Q"-like LARPer/fraudster figure`
        SnowProblem 5y ago
        The information is out there for people to make up their own mind. But if you are confident that CSW is larping as Satoshi, let's have some fun and make it a bet.
- mr_sturd 5y ago
  38EQT9MqNU6SU7cUdXw9cx2GoRKJi1EhYX
- Trias11 5y ago
  You'll know which addresses i sent my money to. Maybe. But unlikely you'll know what i bought
  - SavantIdiot 5y ago
    Metadata is sufficient.
- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  Approx. $300 USD in Bitcoin seems like a high cost for this expt.
qwertox 5y ago
You could be asked to sign a message provided to you by the government. That would be enough. It's interesting, because normally a bank/exchange would do that for you, but in this case, it's up to you to report which assets you own. The fact that it is possible is the interesting thing here.
- wcoenen 5y ago
  > You could be asked to sign a message provided to you by the government. That would be enough. That would only link you to one particular address. Modern wallets are typically "hierarchical deterministic" as described in BIP32[1]. They generate new keys/addresses from a seed value as needed. To properly register such a wallet, you would have to provide the root public key from which all addresses can be derived (but not private keys). [1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032

>> The new rules would also prohibit providing anonymous crypto-asset wallets. Where should I send my Ledger to so i can be a good, obedient citizen and be compliant with this law?

SavantIdiot 5y ago

Pretty easy actually: let me give you 0.01BTC, then I'll know what you spend your money on. Forever.

arthurcolle 5y ago
This is not right - pretty much all modern wallet software generates brand new key pairs each time there is a transaction, thereby creating a new address. The unspent utxo's (unspent transaction outputs) are then sent to the new address and the old address can (but shouldn't) be used.
- beervirus 5y ago
  But anyone can see the new address to which the utxo's were sent...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- lxgr 5y ago
  This amounts to little more than trivial obfuscation in practice. The UTXO "privacy" model of Bitcoin has never worked out, and more modern cryptocurrencies aren‘t even attempting anything like it anymore.
  - SnowProblem 5y ago
    In practice, Bitcoin's privacy model was never even tried though. BTC fees are so prohibitively expensive that no wallet or user would generate more UTXOs or transactions than they have to, making it trivial to trace, yes. But if BTC had been allowed to scale like it was originally designed, then wallets would not fear inputting and outputting potentially hundreds of UTXOs in every transaction of varying amounts so that it becomes practically impossible to trace. On Bitcoin SV, basically a high-scale version of Bitcoin, there are today several wallets taking smarter approaches to privacy. HandCash's Output Bills [1] for example splits outputs into fixed denominations like cash, and Paymail [2] is a email-like addressing scheme to avoid sharing addresses publicly. I'm sure more approaches will be tried too now that wallets have some freedom to experiment. [1] https://handcash.medium.com/introducing-output-bills-a-coin-splitting-technique-for-increasing-the-privacy-of-handcash-360322fbe1db https://handcash.medium.com/introducing-output-bills-a-coin-... [2] https://bsvalias.org/ https://bsvalias.org/
    - Stevvo 5y ago
      CSW is a fraud. https://github.com/vbuterin/cult-of-craig https://github.com/vbuterin/cult-of-craig
    - meowface 5y ago
      Even if it were technologically superior in some ways, the fact that it's made and run by a "Q"-like LARPer/fraudster figure makes it dead on arrival.
      - SnowProblem 5y ago
        Been hearing this since 2018. Meanwhile - Cryptofights alone did 600k transactions yesterday https://bsvdata.com https://bsvdata.com - Hundreds of independent games, social media, wallets, exchanges, tokens, artwork, hackathons in general creativity. https://metastore.app https://metastore.app - Solid user and developer experiences. https://handcash.io https://handcash.io, https://moneybutton.com https://moneybutton.com, https://cryptofights.io https://cryptofights.io, https://run.network https://run.network - Thousands globally who fly to attend conferences, before covid at least https://coingeekconference.com/en/past-conferences/london-feb-2020 https://coingeekconference.com/en/past-conferences/london-fe... - Advanced research going into scaling Bitcoin. 50K tps demonstrated publicly, more privately. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3As9-9uSXs&t=224s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3As9-9uSXs&t=224s - Active community, spread across Slack, Youtube, Streamanity, Twitter, Telegram, and others. Tons of different personalities and beliefs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAPRWOwam20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAPRWOwam20 Clearly dead though.
        katbyte 5y ago
        you didn't address `"Q"-like LARPer/fraudster figure`
        SnowProblem 5y ago
        The information is out there for people to make up their own mind. But if you are confident that CSW is larping as Satoshi, let's have some fun and make it a bet.
mr_sturd 5y ago
38EQT9MqNU6SU7cUdXw9cx2GoRKJi1EhYX
Trias11 5y ago
You'll know which addresses i sent my money to. Maybe. But unlikely you'll know what i bought
- SavantIdiot 5y ago
  Metadata is sufficient.
_carbyau_ 5y ago
Approx. $300 USD in Bitcoin seems like a high cost for this expt.

qwertox 5y ago

You could be asked to sign a message provided to you by the government. That would be enough. It's interesting, because normally a bank/exchange would do that for you, but in this case, it's up to you to report which assets you own. The fact that it is possible is the interesting thing here.

wcoenen 5y ago
> You could be asked to sign a message provided to you by the government. That would be enough. That would only link you to one particular address. Modern wallets are typically "hierarchical deterministic" as described in BIP32[1]. They generate new keys/addresses from a seed value as needed. To properly register such a wallet, you would have to provide the root public key from which all addresses can be derived (but not private keys). [1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032