5 ms·

It isn't just Windows 10, as far as I know every version of windows has always wanted to spend like a minute (or multiple minutes!) slowly counting the files be

It isn't just Windows 10, as far as I know every version of windows has always wanted to spend like a minute (or multiple minutes!) slowly counting the files before it proceeds to slowly delete them one by one... until it finds one that's open in a background process and nixes the whole operation in a half complete state. 5 times slower sounds conservative. It's awful. Hey, maybe they could put rounded corners on the file deletion window, I bet that would fix it!

metalliqaz 5y ago
it does that for the UI For power users, you're much better off using the command line tools
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  I have a different power user workaround: I don't use Windows if I can at all avoid it. EDIT: Does the CLI override the "open in background" check? Or do you still need Mark Russinovich sysinternals to reliably perform elementary file system administration tasks in Windows?
tyingq 5y ago
I think that's warts in the file explorer more so than warts in the system itself.
- logifail 5y ago
  > warts in the file explorer more so than warts in the system itself I'm struggling to understand why one shouldn't treat the behaviour of explorer.exe as simply part of the Windows system. Are there third-party explorer.exe alternatives available? If so, during Windows install, where do I click to _not_ install the MSFT explorer.exe and instead select one of the better alternatives?
  - edoceo 5y ago
    The last time I really used Windows (Win2k) there were alternative WinShell options. You'd set a regkey to your program. There used to be a 3.1 style Program Manager - I miss that one
  - tyingq 5y ago
    I'm not excusing it, I'm just saying where the performance issue is. Filesystem ops are reasonably fast if you use the command line, do it programmatically, etc. With the caveat that Windows Defender can slow things down.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Is "you can't delete a file if anything has it open" an explorer thing? I thought that was an OS thing.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    That's an OS thing, but "wait forever while it grinds, finds one of those, and bails half finished" isn't.
mikestew 5y ago
The only reason I'm posting on HN right now is because I dared to right-click a folder on a network share. MyFolderName (not responding), whelp, guess I'll go fuck off for 60 seconds while every item in that shortcut menu opens a network connection, navigates to...or whatever the hell it's doing. Yeah, I know, use the CLI. OTOH, I argue: fix your broken UI. I worked at MSFT for eight years as a full-time, Flavorade-guzzling employee, and fifteen years later rarely a day goes by that I don't question how Microsoft manages to get anyone to buy that steaming pile they call an operating system.
- chungy 5y ago
  > rarely a day goes by that I don't question how Microsoft manages to get anyone to buy that steaming pile they call an operating system. "But muh games!"
  - gameswithgo 5y ago
    yeah maybe instead of making fun of that major industry other operating systems should treat it as an opportunity to gain market share.
    - pfraze 5y ago
      SteamDeck is particularly interesting because of how much it is tackling that industry head-on. From the perspective of a mobile gaming console, the fact that it’s a PC is awesome. From the perspective of advancing gaming on Linux, it’s even more exciting
  - puzzlingcaptcha 5y ago
    Yeah, 'cause the incredible fragmentation of Linux GUI toolkits and windowing systems is so fun to deal with. Year of Linux on the Desktop when.
    - chungy 5y ago
      Just take a look at the Windows desktop versus Linux desktop. The Windows desktop is far more fragmented and discongruous. With Linux, the main difference is whether your desktop is primarily Qt or GTK. Sometimes an app using the other toolkit will look kind of funny, but most of those differences are paved over by any competent distro (eg: Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE...).
xxs 5y ago
This has very little to do with Windows, itself. The issue is explorer that tries to estimate sizes and put the files in the recycled bin. Also likely it checks all the permissions while counting. Try the command line: "rmdir /s" and it's quick.
- mackwell 5y ago
  I think for the purpose of this discussion, explorer IS Windows. It is the UI that we all wish didn’t have these issues. I like using the command line / powershell when I’m on Windows for large file operations, but sometimes I still go to drag files around out of habit and quickly remember I have made a huge mistake as everything grinds to a halt / takes forever. On Linux and MacOS GUI file operations most of the time seem like they are just a visual way to call the same operations you’d be using on the command line.
  - xxs 5y ago
    My habit is shift+del for windows; but most of the time I use cygwin anyways. >I think for the purpose of this discussion, explorer IS Windows. The article is about the file system, not the UI.
- GordonS 5y ago
  This is true, but I don't understand why Explorer has been plagued with performance issues (and some of those intermittent; I presume based on network status) since forever. I'm actually a big fan of Windows on the desktop, and as long as I avoid Explorer, I have no issues at all with file system performance while I'm developing, working from the command line, VS Code and Rider, and working with containers and WSL - all works great. But Explorer is such a central component of Windows that it affects pretty all users. I genuinely don't understand how it can be so rubbish ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - qwertox 5y ago
    Sometimes it's some .dll extensions which get loaded into explorer.exe which cause these problems. I once had a PDF file on the desktop and for some reason this file was causing explorer.exe to freeze under certain circumstances. It's all a big mistery.
anigbrowl 5y ago
I think it's file manager in particular. When I need to do something muscular I open a DOS box and just do it at the command line. It feels plenty zippy though I haven't bothered to do any benchmarks; I have to confess I've never learned Powershell because it's so easy to get most things done with command.com. Although Windows remains my favorite environment I share the annoyance at how MS really polishes some things while failing on basic functionality, when they definitely have the resources and skills to fix that. Every time my wifi or WAN hiccups I wonder why Windows still lacks decent network history/QOS tools out of the box.
- mickotron 5y ago
  Yep, "dir /s /b | findstr x" is way quicker than searching for files in explorer.
qwertox 5y ago
Oh man... Deleting a folder with a million files, or even only 100.000 is painful in Windows. You need to use the command line in order to sanely delete such folders.

metalliqaz 5y ago

it does that for the UI For power users, you're much better off using the command line tools

jjoonathan 5y ago
I have a different power user workaround: I don't use Windows if I can at all avoid it. EDIT: Does the CLI override the "open in background" check? Or do you still need Mark Russinovich sysinternals to reliably perform elementary file system administration tasks in Windows?

tyingq 5y ago

I think that's warts in the file explorer more so than warts in the system itself.

logifail 5y ago
> warts in the file explorer more so than warts in the system itself I'm struggling to understand why one shouldn't treat the behaviour of explorer.exe as simply part of the Windows system. Are there third-party explorer.exe alternatives available? If so, during Windows install, where do I click to _not_ install the MSFT explorer.exe and instead select one of the better alternatives?
- edoceo 5y ago
  The last time I really used Windows (Win2k) there were alternative WinShell options. You'd set a regkey to your program. There used to be a 3.1 style Program Manager - I miss that one
- tyingq 5y ago
  I'm not excusing it, I'm just saying where the performance issue is. Filesystem ops are reasonably fast if you use the command line, do it programmatically, etc. With the caveat that Windows Defender can slow things down.
jjoonathan 5y ago
Is "you can't delete a file if anything has it open" an explorer thing? I thought that was an OS thing.
- tyingq 5y ago
  That's an OS thing, but "wait forever while it grinds, finds one of those, and bails half finished" isn't.

mikestew 5y ago

The only reason I'm posting on HN right now is because I dared to right-click a folder on a network share. MyFolderName (not responding), whelp, guess I'll go fuck off for 60 seconds while every item in that shortcut menu opens a network connection, navigates to...or whatever the hell it's doing. Yeah, I know, use the CLI. OTOH, I argue: fix your broken UI. I worked at MSFT for eight years as a full-time, Flavorade-guzzling employee, and fifteen years later rarely a day goes by that I don't question how Microsoft manages to get anyone to buy that steaming pile they call an operating system.

chungy 5y ago
> rarely a day goes by that I don't question how Microsoft manages to get anyone to buy that steaming pile they call an operating system. "But muh games!"
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  yeah maybe instead of making fun of that major industry other operating systems should treat it as an opportunity to gain market share.
  - pfraze 5y ago
    SteamDeck is particularly interesting because of how much it is tackling that industry head-on. From the perspective of a mobile gaming console, the fact that it’s a PC is awesome. From the perspective of advancing gaming on Linux, it’s even more exciting
- puzzlingcaptcha 5y ago
  Yeah, 'cause the incredible fragmentation of Linux GUI toolkits and windowing systems is so fun to deal with. Year of Linux on the Desktop when.
  - chungy 5y ago
    Just take a look at the Windows desktop versus Linux desktop. The Windows desktop is far more fragmented and discongruous. With Linux, the main difference is whether your desktop is primarily Qt or GTK. Sometimes an app using the other toolkit will look kind of funny, but most of those differences are paved over by any competent distro (eg: Debian, Fedora, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE...).

xxs 5y ago

This has very little to do with Windows, itself. The issue is explorer that tries to estimate sizes and put the files in the recycled bin. Also likely it checks all the permissions while counting. Try the command line: "rmdir /s" and it's quick.

mackwell 5y ago
I think for the purpose of this discussion, explorer IS Windows. It is the UI that we all wish didn’t have these issues. I like using the command line / powershell when I’m on Windows for large file operations, but sometimes I still go to drag files around out of habit and quickly remember I have made a huge mistake as everything grinds to a halt / takes forever. On Linux and MacOS GUI file operations most of the time seem like they are just a visual way to call the same operations you’d be using on the command line.
- xxs 5y ago
  My habit is shift+del for windows; but most of the time I use cygwin anyways. >I think for the purpose of this discussion, explorer IS Windows. The article is about the file system, not the UI.
GordonS 5y ago
This is true, but I don't understand why Explorer has been plagued with performance issues (and some of those intermittent; I presume based on network status) since forever. I'm actually a big fan of Windows on the desktop, and as long as I avoid Explorer, I have no issues at all with file system performance while I'm developing, working from the command line, VS Code and Rider, and working with containers and WSL - all works great. But Explorer is such a central component of Windows that it affects pretty all users. I genuinely don't understand how it can be so rubbish ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- qwertox 5y ago
  Sometimes it's some .dll extensions which get loaded into explorer.exe which cause these problems. I once had a PDF file on the desktop and for some reason this file was causing explorer.exe to freeze under certain circumstances. It's all a big mistery.

anigbrowl 5y ago

I think it's file manager in particular. When I need to do something muscular I open a DOS box and just do it at the command line. It feels plenty zippy though I haven't bothered to do any benchmarks; I have to confess I've never learned Powershell because it's so easy to get most things done with command.com. Although Windows remains my favorite environment I share the annoyance at how MS really polishes some things while failing on basic functionality, when they definitely have the resources and skills to fix that. Every time my wifi or WAN hiccups I wonder why Windows still lacks decent network history/QOS tools out of the box.

mickotron 5y ago
Yep, "dir /s /b | findstr x" is way quicker than searching for files in explorer.

qwertox 5y ago

Oh man... Deleting a folder with a million files, or even only 100.000 is painful in Windows. You need to use the command line in order to sanely delete such folders.