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I agree. Creating some friction to encourage the move away from FTP is the right thing to do, for a variety of technical reasons There are times when HN seems

I agree. Creating some friction to encourage the move away from FTP is the right thing to do, for a variety of technical reasons There are times when HN seems to become very negative to a particular topic. In the past I’ve seen it with Kubernetes, systemd or GCP/AWS. I feel it’s that way with Mozilla/Firefox. More often than not, comments on Mozilla/Firefox are very negative then create a feedback loop of negativity. Obviously subjective, but just what I see

antisol 5y ago
> for a variety of technical reasons Please elaborate. In excruciating detail.
- fomine3 5y ago
  For network protocol perspective, FTP is weird old protocol from current view. Forget Active mode since it's no luck under NAPT. Even in Passive mode, it requires NAT device to rewrite address in command, won't work with firewall closing unknown external port without dynamic filtering by packet inspection, and server configuration isn't simple depends on network configuration. Modern network environment like NAT64/DNS64 need special support for FTP. There are no reason to continue using ancient protocol forever.
  - antisol 5y ago
    How is NAT the browser's problem? You're about 10,000 words short of "excruciating", and about half a dozen reasons short of "a variety" >There are no reason to continue using ancient protocol forever. You undermine yourself with statements like this. I explicitly asked for excruciating detail. This response essentially sums up to "because I said so". ...and it's empirically incorrect, too: You can find a ton of reasons where people need FTP today if you look through this discussion. So many that I'm not going to bother repeating them here.
    - AstralStorm 5y ago
      Even less of a problem now once IPv6 gets everywhere finally.
autoexec 5y ago
If I'm hard on Mozilla/Firefox it's only because I love it, think it's valuable/important, and want it to be the best it can be. When Google or MS does something shitty with their browsers I pretty much expect it from them and I'm partially insulated from their bad behaviors since I avoid using those browsers. When Mozilla acts badly though I'm often personally impacted. I'm actually okay with them getting rid of FTP support (although I think leaving it there, but disabled by default was a better way to go - FTP links are pretty common out there) but I'm not at all surprised by the backlash.

antisol 5y ago

> for a variety of technical reasons Please elaborate. In excruciating detail.

fomine3 5y ago
For network protocol perspective, FTP is weird old protocol from current view. Forget Active mode since it's no luck under NAPT. Even in Passive mode, it requires NAT device to rewrite address in command, won't work with firewall closing unknown external port without dynamic filtering by packet inspection, and server configuration isn't simple depends on network configuration. Modern network environment like NAT64/DNS64 need special support for FTP. There are no reason to continue using ancient protocol forever.
- antisol 5y ago
  How is NAT the browser's problem? You're about 10,000 words short of "excruciating", and about half a dozen reasons short of "a variety" >There are no reason to continue using ancient protocol forever. You undermine yourself with statements like this. I explicitly asked for excruciating detail. This response essentially sums up to "because I said so". ...and it's empirically incorrect, too: You can find a ton of reasons where people need FTP today if you look through this discussion. So many that I'm not going to bother repeating them here.
  - AstralStorm 5y ago
    Even less of a problem now once IPv6 gets everywhere finally.

autoexec 5y ago

If I'm hard on Mozilla/Firefox it's only because I love it, think it's valuable/important, and want it to be the best it can be. When Google or MS does something shitty with their browsers I pretty much expect it from them and I'm partially insulated from their bad behaviors since I avoid using those browsers. When Mozilla acts badly though I'm often personally impacted. I'm actually okay with them getting rid of FTP support (although I think leaving it there, but disabled by default was a better way to go - FTP links are pretty common out there) but I'm not at all surprised by the backlash.