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Just guessing here, but I don't think HN was designed for engaged prolonged discussion. If it were, they probably would have implemented such features as can b

by starkd 5y ago

Just guessing here, but I don't think HN was designed for engaged prolonged discussion. If it were, they probably would have implemented such features as can be found in other platforms. That could transform it into something never intended. Personally, I think people put too much focus on comments. Many are trying to persuade others of a view (and hence are impervious to true discussion). Comments are useful to the extent they provide new information or links directing people to other similar content. I think the limitations on HN comments put the emphasis on the latter purpose and away from the former.

mikewarot 5y ago
Leaving a comment is a commitment to a conversation, it's rude to just shout something and then leave.
- happytoexplain 5y ago
  >Leaving a comment is a commitment to a conversation This depends on the content of the comment. Some are more obviously asking for a back-and-forth and some are not. Just because you replied to a comment of the latter type doesn't mean the author is obligated to notice and take the time to give an opinion on what you wrote. >it's rude to just shout something and then leave Sure, but how do you define "shout something" and "leave" in this context? Most comments are not tantamount to just "shouting something", and surely there is some threshold of time passing and/or the quality of content where neglecting a reply no longer counts as "leaving".
- kjaftaedi 5y ago
  It's possible to provide insight into a subject without having to 'school' everyone. Leaving comments that thousands of people have to scroll past so you can have a warm feeling that you are being friendly is not beneficial to the group. Please re-think your approach to commenting.
- hombre_fatal 5y ago
  I disagree. Make your point and then let others enjoy the show and share their own opinions. One of the most obnoxious HNisms is when someone makes a comment and then monopolizes every downstream response to defend their position and ego. If you have a good point, then give others a chance to defend the point for you. Frankly I wouldn’t mind a feature that only lets you post one comment downstream of your other comment.
  - mikewarot 5y ago
    I've slowly been realizing that it's best to let someone else defend a position, but only comment to clear up mis-understandings. Of course, you have to be tracking the threads to do that.
- krapp 5y ago
  It is rude, but it's necessary. Despite its pretensions of civility, Hacker News is not a truly civil place. It has it's fair share of trolls, cranks and sociopaths who will gladly spend hours stonewalling, derailing and sea-lioning you, just to piss you off, or score an endorphine hit from you. Many people aren't here to talk to you, so much as talk at you. You have to learn when you're talking to one of the rare people who are interested in anyone but themselves or anything but their own point of view. As soon as you realize the other party is acting in bad faith, or you feel like there's little chance of further conversation not becoming hostile or just going in pointless circles, just leave. That is the only way to stay sane here and avoid futile attempts at conversation degenerating into flamewars.
  - atatatat 5y ago
    There are as many drive by helpers as there are trolls.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
PenguinCoder 5y ago
Thing is , I respect, like, and read HN for the exceptional comments. The links themselves I might find on Reddit, but I don't read those comments. The value add of HN is the comments and I want to stay Informed of those, especially if I comment to the discussion, or awaiting answer/feedback.
- starkd 5y ago
  I do too. I'm just more turned off when there's too much back and forth argument that is not useful to anyone else. It's not to hard to scroll away, but with too much of it, it becomes an annoying distraction.
CodeGlitch 5y ago
The high level on insight I have gained from HN comments is the reason that I spend 90% of my internet time on HN. There's plenty I don't agree with, but I think it's healthy to be exposed to all points of view. For me, HN hits the sweet-spot with it's commenting system, and I hope it never changes.
dang 5y ago
I look at it this way: it's designed for engaged, prolonged discussion if and only if people continue to be interested enough in it to remember. If they aren't, activation energy falls below a certain threshold and attention naturally moves on to something else. That seems healthy for curious conversation, which fits the prime directive of HN (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). What we don't do is resort to technical tricks to keep that energy buzzed up. We're optimizing for curiosity, not engagement.
- varrock 5y ago
  Which is precisely why this is my favorite message board on the Internet. I love that I never have to collapse comments in HN threads because they're witty or off-topic.

by starkd 5y ago

mikewarot 5y ago

Leaving a comment is a commitment to a conversation, it's rude to just shout something and then leave.

happytoexplain 5y ago
>Leaving a comment is a commitment to a conversation This depends on the content of the comment. Some are more obviously asking for a back-and-forth and some are not. Just because you replied to a comment of the latter type doesn't mean the author is obligated to notice and take the time to give an opinion on what you wrote. >it's rude to just shout something and then leave Sure, but how do you define "shout something" and "leave" in this context? Most comments are not tantamount to just "shouting something", and surely there is some threshold of time passing and/or the quality of content where neglecting a reply no longer counts as "leaving".
kjaftaedi 5y ago
It's possible to provide insight into a subject without having to 'school' everyone. Leaving comments that thousands of people have to scroll past so you can have a warm feeling that you are being friendly is not beneficial to the group. Please re-think your approach to commenting.
hombre_fatal 5y ago
I disagree. Make your point and then let others enjoy the show and share their own opinions. One of the most obnoxious HNisms is when someone makes a comment and then monopolizes every downstream response to defend their position and ego. If you have a good point, then give others a chance to defend the point for you. Frankly I wouldn’t mind a feature that only lets you post one comment downstream of your other comment.
- mikewarot 5y ago
  I've slowly been realizing that it's best to let someone else defend a position, but only comment to clear up mis-understandings. Of course, you have to be tracking the threads to do that.
krapp 5y ago
It is rude, but it's necessary. Despite its pretensions of civility, Hacker News is not a truly civil place. It has it's fair share of trolls, cranks and sociopaths who will gladly spend hours stonewalling, derailing and sea-lioning you, just to piss you off, or score an endorphine hit from you. Many people aren't here to talk to you, so much as talk at you. You have to learn when you're talking to one of the rare people who are interested in anyone but themselves or anything but their own point of view. As soon as you realize the other party is acting in bad faith, or you feel like there's little chance of further conversation not becoming hostile or just going in pointless circles, just leave. That is the only way to stay sane here and avoid futile attempts at conversation degenerating into flamewars.
- atatatat 5y ago
  There are as many drive by helpers as there are trolls.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

PenguinCoder 5y ago

Thing is , I respect, like, and read HN for the exceptional comments. The links themselves I might find on Reddit, but I don't read those comments. The value add of HN is the comments and I want to stay Informed of those, especially if I comment to the discussion, or awaiting answer/feedback.

starkd 5y ago
I do too. I'm just more turned off when there's too much back and forth argument that is not useful to anyone else. It's not to hard to scroll away, but with too much of it, it becomes an annoying distraction.

CodeGlitch 5y ago

The high level on insight I have gained from HN comments is the reason that I spend 90% of my internet time on HN. There's plenty I don't agree with, but I think it's healthy to be exposed to all points of view. For me, HN hits the sweet-spot with it's commenting system, and I hope it never changes.

dang 5y ago

I look at it this way: it's designed for engaged, prolonged discussion if and only if people continue to be interested enough in it to remember. If they aren't, activation energy falls below a certain threshold and attention naturally moves on to something else. That seems healthy for curious conversation, which fits the prime directive of HN (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). What we don't do is resort to technical tricks to keep that energy buzzed up. We're optimizing for curiosity, not engagement.

varrock 5y ago
Which is precisely why this is my favorite message board on the Internet. I love that I never have to collapse comments in HN threads because they're witty or off-topic.