20 ms·

Personally I prefer the superdeterminism arguement: i.e. the state of every "future" entanglement was already set "before" the big bang. The anthropocentric co

Personally I prefer the superdeterminism arguement: i.e. the state of every "future" entanglement was already set "before" the big bang. The anthropocentric corollary is that "free will" is an illusion.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
The universe seems to have surely went to great lengths to trick its own atoms into believing they have free will. :)
- morpheos137 5y ago
  I don't know what you mean. The number of atoms involved in the free will delusion is infintesimal compared to the number of atoms in the universe. Number of atoms in 8 billion human brains: about 10^35 number of atoms in the universe about 10^82 according to search results. Maybe there are no aliens but homo sapiens are just the first stage of the universe becoming self aware.
  - intrbelle 5y ago
    You shouldn't even bother responding to the person that's claiming to be a research scientist in his/her profile and while he/she wrote such garbage at an attempt to justify such nonsense. HN is overcroweded with people that are against the notion of free will being an illusion. Even dang has a bias. All comments like yours just get unfairly downvoted until they're not visible.
    - morpheos137 5y ago
      Yeah there is definite a SF hippie/beat woo vibe here at times. Maybe "consciousness" is fundamental and free will is real but so far we haven't see any evidence. I think superdeterminism is more parsiminous than multiple universes.
    - mensetmanusman 5y ago
      There are so many fun consequences of no free will, For one, if we don’t have free will, no one could bother one way or the other whether they argue about it. It would also just be a feature of the universe that clouds of atoms take one position or the other :)
- bronzeage 5y ago
  Or maybe you give too much power to free will. Could a Maxwells demon pick the correct timing to close/open the door just by his power of free will? If your answer is yes, then free will can break the second law of thermodynamics. If your answer is no, I will ask, what about in a single small period of time? What is stopping the agent with free will from opening the door then? I think the same thing prevents Maxwell's demon and a bell observer from having "too much free will", and that thinking of free will in terms of single point in time decisions is also wrong for similar reasons.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

The universe seems to have surely went to great lengths to trick its own atoms into believing they have free will. :)

morpheos137 5y ago
I don't know what you mean. The number of atoms involved in the free will delusion is infintesimal compared to the number of atoms in the universe. Number of atoms in 8 billion human brains: about 10^35 number of atoms in the universe about 10^82 according to search results. Maybe there are no aliens but homo sapiens are just the first stage of the universe becoming self aware.
- intrbelle 5y ago
  You shouldn't even bother responding to the person that's claiming to be a research scientist in his/her profile and while he/she wrote such garbage at an attempt to justify such nonsense. HN is overcroweded with people that are against the notion of free will being an illusion. Even dang has a bias. All comments like yours just get unfairly downvoted until they're not visible.
  - morpheos137 5y ago
    Yeah there is definite a SF hippie/beat woo vibe here at times. Maybe "consciousness" is fundamental and free will is real but so far we haven't see any evidence. I think superdeterminism is more parsiminous than multiple universes.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    There are so many fun consequences of no free will, For one, if we don’t have free will, no one could bother one way or the other whether they argue about it. It would also just be a feature of the universe that clouds of atoms take one position or the other :)
bronzeage 5y ago
Or maybe you give too much power to free will. Could a Maxwells demon pick the correct timing to close/open the door just by his power of free will? If your answer is yes, then free will can break the second law of thermodynamics. If your answer is no, I will ask, what about in a single small period of time? What is stopping the agent with free will from opening the door then? I think the same thing prevents Maxwell's demon and a bell observer from having "too much free will", and that thinking of free will in terms of single point in time decisions is also wrong for similar reasons.