4 ms·

Can't eat beef because of mad cow and the heavy medication used in breeding; same goes for pigs and chicken and all other mass-produced meat. On top of that you

by kahawe 15y ago

Can't eat beef because of mad cow and the heavy medication used in breeding; same goes for pigs and chicken and all other mass-produced meat. On top of that you have the question of animal cruelty and the questionable necessity of killing animals to eat them attached to it. Plus it is generally not that healthy to eat it all the time and you shouldn't eat meat more than once or twice a week or so. Can't eat fish for all the mercury and lots of them being close to extinction and it kills dolphins and damages the oceans. Can't eat eggs or milk, again for cruelty and various possible diseases or other contamination. And vegetables and fruits? Well, practically all of the mass produced ones never EVER saw any soil or real sunlight but artificial gel to grow on and were picked by poor and heavily underpaid and downright exploited people from (and typically in) poor countries under inhuman conditions and bought by the rich nations for next to nothing. (here is to you, militant vegetarians!) On top of that they are heavily laden with chemicals of all sorts and chances are when you get to buy them, they are far from being fresh. Plus for practically all the food mentioned above: production heavily, grossly outranks what actually ends up being bought... so we just dump it, burn it or do FSM-knows what with it. We certainly do NOT give it to the starving people in this world because it would cost too much. And if you go organic and local farmers only? Apart from few choices, you have even less inspections and regulations to protect your safety because you don't know what they are selling, what it grew on and how clean and safe to eat it is. And some of it just taste absolutely horrible. This is just pathetic... the whole food industry, front to back, top to bottom. If you go by the warnings on what to avoid, what is dangerous for your health and what is immoral and wrong to eat, we better come up with a way to get by on nothing but sunlight and water quickly. But then again, fresh water supplies are currently being bought up by Big-Food to make lots and lots of money and water in bottles is very often not as clean as one might hope and certain chemicals from plastic bottles could basically work like estrogen in your body.

DanielStraight 15y ago
For decades we as a species have been deciding to turn food into an industry. This decision has had disastrous consequences, but like CO2 in the atmosphere it can't be reversed overnight. Cross-pollination can bring genetically modified strains into organic crops, making it hard to keep a crop organic even if you want to. Run-off from industrial agriculture has damaged water and soil, which will impact whatever is planted, whether organic or not. Soil depletion has also lead to decreased nutrient presence in fruits and vegetables. Industrial agriculture has reduced the number of varieties of each species grown. Why does all broccoli look the same? Surely pre-industry, there were numerous varieties of broccoli. Land is not divided in such a way to make local, small-scale, organic farms practical. Where are you going to put a farm in New York City or Los Angeles? This is not to say the problem can't be fixed, but we are living in a non-ideal time for food, so there won't be any ideal choices. The only thing you can do is make better choices, and try to turn the direction of food production around so that eventually ideal choices will be possible.
- simonsarris 15y ago
  > Why does all broccoli look the same? Surely pre-industry, there were numerous varieties of broccoli. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here or not. If you are sincere then you are mistaken beyond your wildest dreams. All cultivars of the broccoli species look magnificently different. Broccoli, kale, collard greens, Chinese broccoli, cauliflower, Romanesco broccoli and broccoflower, cabbage, brussels sprouts, and kohlrabi are all different cultivars within the same species: Brassica oleracea.
  - riffic 15y ago
    you're missing the point. The point is, monocultures in agriculture can cause major issues. see the banana
    - DanielStraight 15y ago
      Right. It was just a randomly chosen example. Perhaps it was a poor one. I'm aware of the size of the Brassica genus and the B. oleracea species in particular. I was not, however, trying to make the point that B. oleracea is a species without a lot of variety. I was trying to make the point that the food industry consistently simplifies the genetic variety of foods, sometimes alarmingly so. Bananas are definitely a better example.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
        And like any "industry" there are niche providers that specialize in different areas. This is where Community Supported Agriculture, farmer's markets, and supporting your local farms comes into play. You don't have to buy all your vegetables and fruits at the convenience store or local supermarket. It may be easier, but in that case you're exchanging variety for convenience, so don't be surprised at the result.
        DanielStraight 15y ago
        The impact of industrial agriculture can't be undone simply by buying from local farms. It can be mitigated, but mitigated does not equal undone. If I buy my produce from a local farm whose soil is full of run-off from an industrial farm upstream, I'm still being impacted by industrial agriculture. If my local farm only has one type of banana because industrial agriculture has killed all the other ones (this is a metaphor, not reality), then I'm still being impacted by industrial agriculture. If I cook my locally grown produce with water polluted by industrial farms, I'm still being impacted by industrial agriculture. Riding your bike to work doesn't make you immune to the impacts of climate change. Neither does buying locally grown produce make you immune to the impacts of industrial agriculture.
antidaily 15y ago
Sustainability and local product seem to be a big movement in the restaurant industry. Problem is, its only high-end or smaller restaurants. So as long as there's a dollar menu at McDonalds, industrial farms and bio-engineered pesticide-ridden fruits and veggies will be prevalent.
trotsky 15y ago
And vegetables and fruits? Well, practically all of the mass produced ones never EVER saw any soil or real sunlight but artificial gel to grow on Wait, what? You are going off the deep end here. I assure you that the exact opposite is true - practically all mass produced produce touches soil and uses real sunlight. The economics don't support your premise at all. Have you never been to rural areas? I assure you they are not lined with industrial warehouses and artificial lighting systems. And if you go organic and local farmers only? Apart from few choices, you have even less inspections and regulations to protect your safety because you don't know what they are selling, what it grew on and how clean and safe to eat it is. And some of it just taste absolutely horrible. At some level you need to take on a certain amount of responsibility. My locally grown produce mostly comes from people I know. They don't need a ton of regulations and inspections to keep me safe - social contracts do. We've been doing it this way for thousands of years. The regulations and inspections mostly became needed when you got so far removed from your food source. Also life isn't 100.00% safe, c'est la vie.
- Tichy 15y ago
  "Have you never been to rural areas? I assure you they are not lined with industrial warehouses and artificial lighting systems." You are aware that Farmville != rural areas in the real world? There are movies and books depicting the industrial rising of cattle (for example "Eating Animals" does a nice, graphics job). You can spot the "pink lakes" which result from the waste output of industrial pig farming on Google Maps. But these are indeed not the areas you would visit on a weekend trip to the countryside, because these areas reek for miles. Just because some chickens still roam outside, doesn't prove that the majority of them does. The article about pig farming was on HN years ago, but I can't find it atm. But Google provides a lot of info "factory farming".
  - rwolf 15y ago
    The things you are saying are true about livestock. The commenters above are talking about fruits and vegetables specifically. It makes sense to me that a dirt patch and sunlight out in Ohio are cheaper than setting up hydroponics plants.
grannyg00se 15y ago
"burn it or do FSM-knows what with it" Upvoted for mentioning FSM, in acronym form, and not providing any type of explanation. This implies an expectation that FSM is common enough knowledge at this point. I wonder how many people just skipped over it. Surprisingly, a google search of "fsm" actually brings up the relevant page in the first search result, beating out the wikipedia page for Finite State Machine.

by kahawe 15y ago

DanielStraight 15y ago

For decades we as a species have been deciding to turn food into an industry. This decision has had disastrous consequences, but like CO2 in the atmosphere it can't be reversed overnight. Cross-pollination can bring genetically modified strains into organic crops, making it hard to keep a crop organic even if you want to. Run-off from industrial agriculture has damaged water and soil, which will impact whatever is planted, whether organic or not. Soil depletion has also lead to decreased nutrient presence in fruits and vegetables. Industrial agriculture has reduced the number of varieties of each species grown. Why does all broccoli look the same? Surely pre-industry, there were numerous varieties of broccoli. Land is not divided in such a way to make local, small-scale, organic farms practical. Where are you going to put a farm in New York City or Los Angeles? This is not to say the problem can't be fixed, but we are living in a non-ideal time for food, so there won't be any ideal choices. The only thing you can do is make better choices, and try to turn the direction of food production around so that eventually ideal choices will be possible.

simonsarris 15y ago
> Why does all broccoli look the same? Surely pre-industry, there were numerous varieties of broccoli. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here or not. If you are sincere then you are mistaken beyond your wildest dreams. All cultivars of the broccoli species look magnificently different. Broccoli, kale, collard greens, Chinese broccoli, cauliflower, Romanesco broccoli and broccoflower, cabbage, brussels sprouts, and kohlrabi are all different cultivars within the same species: Brassica oleracea.
- riffic 15y ago
  you're missing the point. The point is, monocultures in agriculture can cause major issues. see the banana
  - DanielStraight 15y ago
    Right. It was just a randomly chosen example. Perhaps it was a poor one. I'm aware of the size of the Brassica genus and the B. oleracea species in particular. I was not, however, trying to make the point that B. oleracea is a species without a lot of variety. I was trying to make the point that the food industry consistently simplifies the genetic variety of foods, sometimes alarmingly so. Bananas are definitely a better example.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 15y ago
      And like any "industry" there are niche providers that specialize in different areas. This is where Community Supported Agriculture, farmer's markets, and supporting your local farms comes into play. You don't have to buy all your vegetables and fruits at the convenience store or local supermarket. It may be easier, but in that case you're exchanging variety for convenience, so don't be surprised at the result.
      - DanielStraight 15y ago
        The impact of industrial agriculture can't be undone simply by buying from local farms. It can be mitigated, but mitigated does not equal undone. If I buy my produce from a local farm whose soil is full of run-off from an industrial farm upstream, I'm still being impacted by industrial agriculture. If my local farm only has one type of banana because industrial agriculture has killed all the other ones (this is a metaphor, not reality), then I'm still being impacted by industrial agriculture. If I cook my locally grown produce with water polluted by industrial farms, I'm still being impacted by industrial agriculture. Riding your bike to work doesn't make you immune to the impacts of climate change. Neither does buying locally grown produce make you immune to the impacts of industrial agriculture.

antidaily 15y ago

Sustainability and local product seem to be a big movement in the restaurant industry. Problem is, its only high-end or smaller restaurants. So as long as there's a dollar menu at McDonalds, industrial farms and bio-engineered pesticide-ridden fruits and veggies will be prevalent.

trotsky 15y ago

And vegetables and fruits? Well, practically all of the mass produced ones never EVER saw any soil or real sunlight but artificial gel to grow on Wait, what? You are going off the deep end here. I assure you that the exact opposite is true - practically all mass produced produce touches soil and uses real sunlight. The economics don't support your premise at all. Have you never been to rural areas? I assure you they are not lined with industrial warehouses and artificial lighting systems. And if you go organic and local farmers only? Apart from few choices, you have even less inspections and regulations to protect your safety because you don't know what they are selling, what it grew on and how clean and safe to eat it is. And some of it just taste absolutely horrible. At some level you need to take on a certain amount of responsibility. My locally grown produce mostly comes from people I know. They don't need a ton of regulations and inspections to keep me safe - social contracts do. We've been doing it this way for thousands of years. The regulations and inspections mostly became needed when you got so far removed from your food source. Also life isn't 100.00% safe, c'est la vie.

Tichy 15y ago
"Have you never been to rural areas? I assure you they are not lined with industrial warehouses and artificial lighting systems." You are aware that Farmville != rural areas in the real world? There are movies and books depicting the industrial rising of cattle (for example "Eating Animals" does a nice, graphics job). You can spot the "pink lakes" which result from the waste output of industrial pig farming on Google Maps. But these are indeed not the areas you would visit on a weekend trip to the countryside, because these areas reek for miles. Just because some chickens still roam outside, doesn't prove that the majority of them does. The article about pig farming was on HN years ago, but I can't find it atm. But Google provides a lot of info "factory farming".
- rwolf 15y ago
  The things you are saying are true about livestock. The commenters above are talking about fruits and vegetables specifically. It makes sense to me that a dirt patch and sunlight out in Ohio are cheaper than setting up hydroponics plants.

grannyg00se 15y ago

"burn it or do FSM-knows what with it" Upvoted for mentioning FSM, in acronym form, and not providing any type of explanation. This implies an expectation that FSM is common enough knowledge at this point. I wonder how many people just skipped over it. Surprisingly, a google search of "fsm" actually brings up the relevant page in the first search result, beating out the wikipedia page for Finite State Machine.