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The Lulzsec crew and Wiki Leaks strikes a nerve like modern day Robin Hoods. It makes you wonder if those of us in wealthy democracies are actually experiencin

by flocial 15y ago

The Lulzsec crew and Wiki Leaks strikes a nerve like modern day Robin Hoods. It makes you wonder if those of us in wealthy democracies are actually experiencing a peculiarly 21st century form of passive aggressive oppression where we may be "free" but monitored and essentially feel helpless and the fact that these unknown hackers are able to duck and evade the same forces that can hunt and kill terrorists with disregard of sovereignty makes them look like folk heroes. We'll see how this saga unfolds.

sigzero 15y ago
They are in no way "modern day Robin Hoods". Hoodlums maybe.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  The Sheriff of Nottingham surely thought Robin Hood was a hoodlum too.
  - gdcbyers 15y ago
    Except we aren't the sheriff in this scenario. We are the people Robin Hood is trying to help. And I say petty thuggery and vandalism aren't helping.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome Among other things.
      - gdcbyers 15y ago
        Please clarify this statement. Are you suggesting that my distain for LulzSec and its methods are some how the result of brain washing or extreme trama? And if "We the people" are the Sheriff in this little Robin Hood adventure, who are the poor villagers Robin is trying to help? What a ridiculous reply. Or are we just naming random psychological phenomenon? If thats the case, I choose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme%E2%80%93color_synesthesia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme%E2%80%93color_synesthe...
        18pfsmt 15y ago
        My attempt at understanding burgerbrain's comment leads me to believe that "we the people" are the victims, and our kidnappers are the government and corporate super powers operating via government action to provide legitimacy. While the Antisec people are trying to save us. I'm not saying I agree, but that's my interpretation.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        Your interpretation is accurate. Think about it, how many people in this world have actually signed up to be dominated by their government? Very very few (immigrants might count). Yet we don't question their authority because 1) we are used to it, and 2) every few years, they ask our opinion. Of course they know that they can safely ask our opinion because they know that we've already bought into the entire thing. It's like Patty Hearst participating in robberies. We mistakenly think that they protect us when in reality they are just exploiting us.
        gdcbyers 15y ago
        So in this little metaphor, the people play the role of the hostages, the government plays the role of the kidnappers (lawless criminals) and LulzSec play the role of the government (the good guys trying to save you) Interesting. Confusing, but interesting. > Think about it, how many people in this world have actually signed up to be dominated by their government? No one is making any such claims. Your claim appears to be that the government is this "big bad evil uncle who just wants to rape you" or some such nonsense. Do all governments have issues with corruption, abuse of power and not honouring individual's rights: Yes. Has LulzSec exposed a single government (or private/corporate) abuse? Not that I can find. Lets take a look at some of their releases: 62,000 random logins > Wow, that sounds like a very decisive and clear attack on those taking our rights roll eyes Senate.gov internal data > A copy of their apache config file, and a full file list (no real data, just the file names), I can only assume the documents they found would be so damming and pervasive that it would be wrong to release them....or it was just a publicly accessible site that had nothing to hide, not sure Pron.com user database > Clearly human rights abuses happen every day in the Pron.com offices....when they aren't watching porn Sony International and friends > I know they tend to make shitty stuff, especially music, but I have yet to have a single person be able to point to an action by sony that could be called "dominating", "abusive", "unjust", etc PBS.org > Does this even need an explanation? PBS isnt some evil company out to fuck the little guy. Take a look at their scheduling, Sesame Street, Cat in the Hat Knows A Lot About That! and Seven Wonders of Ancient Egypt. So what exactly has the evil PBS perpetrated to warrant this? Even the Fox.com hack appears to be their licensing portal for other channels to license their syndicated content. It wasn't even news related, it was the site that let my local fox affilate run crappy reality tv. Absolutely ground breaking. > We mistakenly think that they protect us when in reality they are just exploiting us. Really? Because you appear to be mistakenly thinking that LulzSec is her to protect you, rather then exploit you. They broke into a private computer network, stole your personal information (not the companies, not emploies, but your's) published it without your consent, and encouraged others to use it to commit further crimes agents you. All for personal enjoyment. How exactly has any of their acts helped any real situation? How is LulzSec violating your right to privacy considered an acceptable price to pay for....for what, free porn?
      - tvon 15y ago
        Please do more to make your argument than just tossing out a link to Wikipedia.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        The single phrase would have sufficed to make my point, I stated it as a link for those unfamiliar with the concept.
- p4bl0 15y ago
  A lot of people seems to miss the fact that LulzSec #antisec etc. are the new Yippies[1] and pastebin is their new TAP[2]. Their goals are not very different and the means of action are just 40 years later. The "for teh lulz" part was already there too. [1] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Yippies https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Yippies [2] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Youth_International_Party#Writings https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Youth_Interna...
knowtheory 15y ago
I view them as more akin to the anti-war and anti-establishment groups formed in the 60s and 70s. The difference these days is that you don't need to blow anything up to get people's attention. There aren't proxy targets. You can directly target the org that you disagree, crack their db/site, release, or even just sit on, their info, and get epic press attention.
webXL 15y ago
Why "Robin Hoods"? Why not Minutemen? I don't know the complete story of Robin Hood, but I always feel a tinge of class warfare from people who invoke his name. This has nothing to do with class. It has to do with unwarranted and unprovoked aggression by political elites. I don't condone what these hackers did, but there's little to disagree with in that letter. Our behemoth government and its fascist relationship with big business spits in the face of our founding principles: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Something will need to change, or (pardon the cliché) we're gonna end up like Greece.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  Robin Hood is less about class, and more about power. (Of course in it's setting, class was defined by power)
  - lotharbot 15y ago
    More explicitly stated: Robin Hood did not "rob from the rich and give to the poor". He attacked oppressors and protected the oppressed (only rarely giving them money). While the oppressors tended to be rich and the oppressed tended to be poor, there were exceptions. IIRC, there is even a tale where Robin protects a wealthy knight from peasants who are trying to rob him.
- michaeldhopkins 15y ago
  Robin Hood has stood for a lot of things depending on which poem one reads and which people in which century's opinion of him is being counted. One of the most popular traditions of Robin Hood is of him as monarchist supporting the true king, Richard, and opposing Richard's brother, John (the one defeated at Runnymeade. By the way, this is over 500 years old, not invented in the 19th century as some think.) You can think of Anonymous in the same way -- they are opposing an illegitimate regime and would happily stand down should the excesses of the FBI et al be ended by the government.
djb_hackernews 15y ago
Kind of unfair to lump Lulzsec and Wikileaks together.
parasubvert 15y ago
As the political structures become more like the networks we rely on, there's no hierarchy to subvert, just protocols and sites to exploit. Galloway and Thacker's books _Protocol_ and _The Exploit_ have an interesting philosophical discussion of how power struggles will play out in the coming years.

by flocial 15y ago

sigzero 15y ago

They are in no way "modern day Robin Hoods". Hoodlums maybe.

burgerbrain 15y ago
The Sheriff of Nottingham surely thought Robin Hood was a hoodlum too.
- gdcbyers 15y ago
  Except we aren't the sheriff in this scenario. We are the people Robin Hood is trying to help. And I say petty thuggery and vandalism aren't helping.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome Among other things.
    - gdcbyers 15y ago
      Please clarify this statement. Are you suggesting that my distain for LulzSec and its methods are some how the result of brain washing or extreme trama? And if "We the people" are the Sheriff in this little Robin Hood adventure, who are the poor villagers Robin is trying to help? What a ridiculous reply. Or are we just naming random psychological phenomenon? If thats the case, I choose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme%E2%80%93color_synesthesia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapheme%E2%80%93color_synesthe...
      - 18pfsmt 15y ago
        My attempt at understanding burgerbrain's comment leads me to believe that "we the people" are the victims, and our kidnappers are the government and corporate super powers operating via government action to provide legitimacy. While the Antisec people are trying to save us. I'm not saying I agree, but that's my interpretation.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        Your interpretation is accurate. Think about it, how many people in this world have actually signed up to be dominated by their government? Very very few (immigrants might count). Yet we don't question their authority because 1) we are used to it, and 2) every few years, they ask our opinion. Of course they know that they can safely ask our opinion because they know that we've already bought into the entire thing. It's like Patty Hearst participating in robberies. We mistakenly think that they protect us when in reality they are just exploiting us.
        gdcbyers 15y ago
        So in this little metaphor, the people play the role of the hostages, the government plays the role of the kidnappers (lawless criminals) and LulzSec play the role of the government (the good guys trying to save you) Interesting. Confusing, but interesting. > Think about it, how many people in this world have actually signed up to be dominated by their government? No one is making any such claims. Your claim appears to be that the government is this "big bad evil uncle who just wants to rape you" or some such nonsense. Do all governments have issues with corruption, abuse of power and not honouring individual's rights: Yes. Has LulzSec exposed a single government (or private/corporate) abuse? Not that I can find. Lets take a look at some of their releases: 62,000 random logins > Wow, that sounds like a very decisive and clear attack on those taking our rights roll eyes Senate.gov internal data > A copy of their apache config file, and a full file list (no real data, just the file names), I can only assume the documents they found would be so damming and pervasive that it would be wrong to release them....or it was just a publicly accessible site that had nothing to hide, not sure Pron.com user database > Clearly human rights abuses happen every day in the Pron.com offices....when they aren't watching porn Sony International and friends > I know they tend to make shitty stuff, especially music, but I have yet to have a single person be able to point to an action by sony that could be called "dominating", "abusive", "unjust", etc PBS.org > Does this even need an explanation? PBS isnt some evil company out to fuck the little guy. Take a look at their scheduling, Sesame Street, Cat in the Hat Knows A Lot About That! and Seven Wonders of Ancient Egypt. So what exactly has the evil PBS perpetrated to warrant this? Even the Fox.com hack appears to be their licensing portal for other channels to license their syndicated content. It wasn't even news related, it was the site that let my local fox affilate run crappy reality tv. Absolutely ground breaking. > We mistakenly think that they protect us when in reality they are just exploiting us. Really? Because you appear to be mistakenly thinking that LulzSec is her to protect you, rather then exploit you. They broke into a private computer network, stole your personal information (not the companies, not emploies, but your's) published it without your consent, and encouraged others to use it to commit further crimes agents you. All for personal enjoyment. How exactly has any of their acts helped any real situation? How is LulzSec violating your right to privacy considered an acceptable price to pay for....for what, free porn?
    - tvon 15y ago
      Please do more to make your argument than just tossing out a link to Wikipedia.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        The single phrase would have sufficed to make my point, I stated it as a link for those unfamiliar with the concept.
p4bl0 15y ago
A lot of people seems to miss the fact that LulzSec #antisec etc. are the new Yippies[1] and pastebin is their new TAP[2]. Their goals are not very different and the means of action are just 40 years later. The "for teh lulz" part was already there too. [1] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Yippies https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Yippies [2] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Youth_International_Party#Writings https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Youth_Interna...

knowtheory 15y ago

I view them as more akin to the anti-war and anti-establishment groups formed in the 60s and 70s. The difference these days is that you don't need to blow anything up to get people's attention. There aren't proxy targets. You can directly target the org that you disagree, crack their db/site, release, or even just sit on, their info, and get epic press attention.

webXL 15y ago

Why "Robin Hoods"? Why not Minutemen? I don't know the complete story of Robin Hood, but I always feel a tinge of class warfare from people who invoke his name. This has nothing to do with class. It has to do with unwarranted and unprovoked aggression by political elites. I don't condone what these hackers did, but there's little to disagree with in that letter. Our behemoth government and its fascist relationship with big business spits in the face of our founding principles: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Something will need to change, or (pardon the cliché) we're gonna end up like Greece.

burgerbrain 15y ago
Robin Hood is less about class, and more about power. (Of course in it's setting, class was defined by power)
- lotharbot 15y ago
  More explicitly stated: Robin Hood did not "rob from the rich and give to the poor". He attacked oppressors and protected the oppressed (only rarely giving them money). While the oppressors tended to be rich and the oppressed tended to be poor, there were exceptions. IIRC, there is even a tale where Robin protects a wealthy knight from peasants who are trying to rob him.
michaeldhopkins 15y ago
Robin Hood has stood for a lot of things depending on which poem one reads and which people in which century's opinion of him is being counted. One of the most popular traditions of Robin Hood is of him as monarchist supporting the true king, Richard, and opposing Richard's brother, John (the one defeated at Runnymeade. By the way, this is over 500 years old, not invented in the 19th century as some think.) You can think of Anonymous in the same way -- they are opposing an illegitimate regime and would happily stand down should the excesses of the FBI et al be ended by the government.

djb_hackernews 15y ago

Kind of unfair to lump Lulzsec and Wikileaks together.

parasubvert 15y ago

As the political structures become more like the networks we rely on, there's no hierarchy to subvert, just protocols and sites to exploit. Galloway and Thacker's books _Protocol_ and _The Exploit_ have an interesting philosophical discussion of how power struggles will play out in the coming years.