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I've practiced mindfulness and meditation for more than a decade. Mindfulness, as I've learned it, means being aware of your thoughts and feelings, introducing

I've practiced mindfulness and meditation for more than a decade. Mindfulness, as I've learned it, means being aware of your thoughts and feelings, introducing positive thoughts and feelings, and replacing negative thoughts and feelings. Meditation is also meant to be positive. You start with short sessions. The idea is to slow down and eventually stop your thoughts. From what I've heard, a lot people just fall asleep at Vipassana retreats, due to the long meditation sessions, which would not be very useful. The way I learned meditation is that short, focused sessions are better than long sessions where you don't focus / just fall asleep. Based on this article, it sounds like these extended sessions might even be dangerous for some (almost like sensory deprivation or psychedelics can be in some cases). Meditation on its own is not dangerous. The idea is to feel more grounded and centered after. The idea is to focus and develop your concentration. Otherwise, it's just "spacing out", which I've always been told is not meditation. If you space out and start to go into weird states of mind, that is not meditation, that is just dissociating / falling asleep / etc. There is a difference. There's nothing wrong with slowing down your thoughts. If people think that slowing down your thoughts is dangerous, to me that just sounds like the ego not wanting to lose its grasp. Egos can be almost as crazy as someone having a psychotic break. It's fine to let yourself rest in your natural state for a little while. Nothing wrong with that. In my experience, that actually makes you more balanced then someone overthinking their whole life / not being aware of what's going on inside themselves. I'm not a doctor, so get help if you need it, but one suggestion for a meditation practice is to start with 15 minutes a day, morning and evening. Set aside some space in your home and sit quietly for that period of time. Build up from there. Sitting in nature can also be helpful. If you start to feel weird, try to use your mindfulness practice during the day of focusing on positive things to get yourself out of it. Don't stay in a dissociated state, that is unproductive and potentially dangerous. If that doesn't work, stop and come back at a later time. Meditation and mindfulness are meant to support one other. They are not exactly the same, but they are related. When you start to meditate you will become aware of how many thoughts you are having (most people go day to day not paying that much attention). With mindfulness, you practice directing your mind in a more positive way (i.e. neuroplasticity, you are restructuring your mind with a positive intent). This helps your meditations be better and more productive, and helps your life be better and more productive. The way that I've been taught meditation and mindfulness are that they should be positive practices that support your life. If they are making life worse, something is off with that teacher or meditation school. Your own results can inform you if a teacher or meditation school is positive or not. If you're not getting positive results, that's not a good sign. These practices should make your life better.

runyaga 5y ago
> replacing negative thoughts and feelings Really? That sounds like efforting. > The way that I've been taught meditation and mindfulness are that they should be positive practices that support your life. If they are making life worse, something is off with that teacher or meditation school. Um. This is not the accurate from vajrayana point of view and certainly didn't seem the case from the theravada school (when I practiced at IMS.). The waking up process is incredibly painful. As Ken Mcleod says - if you can avoid going down a spiritual path - avoid it. It is nothing but a pandora's box. Witnessing suffering is hard. I would say the first two years of practice for me was pretty difficult. Setting aside transient mental states - just being aware of my moment-to-moment suffering, striving, wanting, grasping, etc. Is hard. Very hard. It is neither positive nor negative. I am pretty convinced at this point that I have fully been brainwashed by Vajrayana teachings. I think something like Diamond Approach is more likely useful for people in the west.
- w4llstr33t 5y ago
  I've studied Vajrayana, so it may vary per school. Nothing wrong with self-effort from what I've been taught. The idea with mindfulness if that if you are just aware of your thoughts, but don't do anything, it's not that helpful. It's like if someone is in a gutter and is mindful about that, they are still in a gutter. That can help them want to make a change, since that experience is probably not very pleasant, but the point is to make a change. The waking up process can bring up stuff, for sure, but the idea is to bring a positive mind the whole time. This is how you go through the stuff and don't just get stuck in it, you go through it. As far as I understand, past thoughts and actions build up karma which is basically the path folks will head down, since at that point it becomes automatic. That is the default state of being for those people. If they just go with it and don't try to change, they will do more of the same. Not everyone wants to get to the advanced stages of meditation, which can be intense. Some basic meditation and mindfulness can be used to improve peoples' lives though. Even just basic mindfulness, like what is taught by Chade-Meng Tan at Google, can be helpful. It all depends on what the individual wants. I'm not familiar with the Diamond Approach, but like I mentioned in my first comment, I think whatever people find that brings positive results in their lives is probably a good thing. It's posts like the article where I feel like certain spiritual teachers and schools are doing something wrong, if it's leading to someone having such a serious break down. That person might have had underlying issues, but as far as I can tell, meditation is pretty safe. Going farther on the spiritual path can be intense, and it's not for everyone, but what you learn in the basic practice helps you along the way so that you don't lose it when you get to the more advanced stages of meditation. You also mentioned non-duality which is a more advanced subject, i.e. looking at things as neither positive or negative. The way I've learned basic meditation and mindfulness is to try to think less, slow down your thoughts, be more aware of what you're thinking and feeling, and replace negative thoughts with positive thoughts. This is pretty safe for beginners and the basics lay down the framework for more advanced meditation. I think it's good to hold off on the advanced subjects until people have a solid basic practice, but to each their own. I have found that there is some use in the beginning in terms of looking at things as positive or negative, so people can clean up their lives and minds, which allows for deeper practice as they progress. The end goal is to overcome all karma and go beyond good and bad, but I don't think people can be expected to do that right away, it takes practice. If people can even just think a little more positive, be more aware of everything that runs through their head, and maybe be a little less reactive with others, their lives will be better and likely their relationships, as well. That's probably pretty safe for the general public to try to do, if they want to. The more hardcore spiritual stuff is not for everyone (most people don't actually want it, they just want to feel a bit better, which is great, too).

runyaga 5y ago

> replacing negative thoughts and feelings Really? That sounds like efforting. > The way that I've been taught meditation and mindfulness are that they should be positive practices that support your life. If they are making life worse, something is off with that teacher or meditation school. Um. This is not the accurate from vajrayana point of view and certainly didn't seem the case from the theravada school (when I practiced at IMS.). The waking up process is incredibly painful. As Ken Mcleod says - if you can avoid going down a spiritual path - avoid it. It is nothing but a pandora's box. Witnessing suffering is hard. I would say the first two years of practice for me was pretty difficult. Setting aside transient mental states - just being aware of my moment-to-moment suffering, striving, wanting, grasping, etc. Is hard. Very hard. It is neither positive nor negative. I am pretty convinced at this point that I have fully been brainwashed by Vajrayana teachings. I think something like Diamond Approach is more likely useful for people in the west.

w4llstr33t 5y ago
I've studied Vajrayana, so it may vary per school. Nothing wrong with self-effort from what I've been taught. The idea with mindfulness if that if you are just aware of your thoughts, but don't do anything, it's not that helpful. It's like if someone is in a gutter and is mindful about that, they are still in a gutter. That can help them want to make a change, since that experience is probably not very pleasant, but the point is to make a change. The waking up process can bring up stuff, for sure, but the idea is to bring a positive mind the whole time. This is how you go through the stuff and don't just get stuck in it, you go through it. As far as I understand, past thoughts and actions build up karma which is basically the path folks will head down, since at that point it becomes automatic. That is the default state of being for those people. If they just go with it and don't try to change, they will do more of the same. Not everyone wants to get to the advanced stages of meditation, which can be intense. Some basic meditation and mindfulness can be used to improve peoples' lives though. Even just basic mindfulness, like what is taught by Chade-Meng Tan at Google, can be helpful. It all depends on what the individual wants. I'm not familiar with the Diamond Approach, but like I mentioned in my first comment, I think whatever people find that brings positive results in their lives is probably a good thing. It's posts like the article where I feel like certain spiritual teachers and schools are doing something wrong, if it's leading to someone having such a serious break down. That person might have had underlying issues, but as far as I can tell, meditation is pretty safe. Going farther on the spiritual path can be intense, and it's not for everyone, but what you learn in the basic practice helps you along the way so that you don't lose it when you get to the more advanced stages of meditation. You also mentioned non-duality which is a more advanced subject, i.e. looking at things as neither positive or negative. The way I've learned basic meditation and mindfulness is to try to think less, slow down your thoughts, be more aware of what you're thinking and feeling, and replace negative thoughts with positive thoughts. This is pretty safe for beginners and the basics lay down the framework for more advanced meditation. I think it's good to hold off on the advanced subjects until people have a solid basic practice, but to each their own. I have found that there is some use in the beginning in terms of looking at things as positive or negative, so people can clean up their lives and minds, which allows for deeper practice as they progress. The end goal is to overcome all karma and go beyond good and bad, but I don't think people can be expected to do that right away, it takes practice. If people can even just think a little more positive, be more aware of everything that runs through their head, and maybe be a little less reactive with others, their lives will be better and likely their relationships, as well. That's probably pretty safe for the general public to try to do, if they want to. The more hardcore spiritual stuff is not for everyone (most people don't actually want it, they just want to feel a bit better, which is great, too).