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> I don't believe elevating sex work to a pedestal in the cultural consciousness is right or ethical. It's not being put on a pedestal. It's being pulled up fr

> I don't believe elevating sex work to a pedestal in the cultural consciousness is right or ethical. It's not being put on a pedestal. It's being pulled up from the gutters. > It's a damaging profession both to its consumers and to its creators. There are far more damaging professions that are well respected and accepted in the modern world. However, because the stigma attached to them is generally positive, they get more assistance and help with that damage. Sex workers don't get that benefit. > What we need is to have a frank discussion about what it entails and stop the trend of fetishizing or glorifying it as a desirable career. It is by and large ugly and violent. That starts by not treating it like it's "by and large ugly and violent." If you want to have meaningful change, start by respecting it. Otherwise, you are really just part of the problem.

emptysongglass 5y ago
Have you read my original comment upstream? If not, please understand the position I'm coming from first. My wife is a sex worker. She has been for five years, four of those together with me. Before I met her, I was a part of a community of sex workers I had known since I was in my twenties so add 5 years more of direct experience with the lives and minds of those workers. My friend who has worked as a domme for the last decade once called me "a friend to sex workers". I deeply care for the people who choose this profession. Ten years ago, five years ago I would say you were right. But I have seen the damage first, second, and third hand. > It's not being put on a pedestal. It's being pulled up from the gutters. There is nothing to "pull up". To touch it is to touch a viper that will bite and hold on until you let go. The vast network of clients, which I hear of every day objectifies, commits violence, and minimizes the humanity of the people engaged in sex work. Yes, it is "by and large ugly and violent". Violent to the prostitutes who risk their lives every time they meet a client, violent to the peace and stability of the mind. Ugly to peel back the spectacled layer and discover the worst of ourselves: covetous, vain and brutal. I do not make this observation as one uninitiated. I write with the weight of a decade of contact with these people I call my wife and friends.
- jasonlotito 5y ago
  > If not, please understand the position I'm coming from first. This doesn't change anything I said. Nor change the fact that your attitude is part of the problem. You are not unique in your point of view, but having that point of view doesn't mean your opinions are immediately valid. > I do not make this observation as one uninitiated. But you are. You are just an observer. You are not a SW yourself. > I write with the weight of a decade of contact with these people If that's true, then it should come as no surprise that there are more people in your position that disagree with your attitude. Otherwise, you don't know as much as you think you do. Edit: In fact, I'll say that by using your position to push the narrative that what your wife does is "ugly and violent," you are doing more to support the idea that people should treat those like her in an "ugly and violent" way. If you don't respect what she does, why should others?
  - emptysongglass 5y ago
    I encourage you to read and listen to the stories of sex workers who are speaking their experience directly. Here's a former sex worker I really like on TikTok who is part of a wave of Gen Z'ers who are pushing back on the narrative that sex work is somehow liberating, good, or healthy. [1] [1] https://www.tiktok.com/@profitfromtrauma/video/6926281617094888710?sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=6969801357680117254&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0 https://www.tiktok.com/@profitfromtrauma/video/6926281617094...
    - jasonlotito 5y ago
      > I encourage you to read and listen to the stories of sex workers who are speaking their experience directly. I could say the same thing to you. Because I have. I've been doing it for 20+ years now. But also because you literally admit to ignoring sex workers. You can't just pick and choose those that support your narrative. I'm done with this conversation. It's clear you aren't interesting in having a real discussion, and just pushing an agenda while at the same time insulting your friends, your wife, and ignoring the people you pretend to support.

emptysongglass 5y ago

Have you read my original comment upstream? If not, please understand the position I'm coming from first. My wife is a sex worker. She has been for five years, four of those together with me. Before I met her, I was a part of a community of sex workers I had known since I was in my twenties so add 5 years more of direct experience with the lives and minds of those workers. My friend who has worked as a domme for the last decade once called me "a friend to sex workers". I deeply care for the people who choose this profession. Ten years ago, five years ago I would say you were right. But I have seen the damage first, second, and third hand. > It's not being put on a pedestal. It's being pulled up from the gutters. There is nothing to "pull up". To touch it is to touch a viper that will bite and hold on until you let go. The vast network of clients, which I hear of every day objectifies, commits violence, and minimizes the humanity of the people engaged in sex work. Yes, it is "by and large ugly and violent". Violent to the prostitutes who risk their lives every time they meet a client, violent to the peace and stability of the mind. Ugly to peel back the spectacled layer and discover the worst of ourselves: covetous, vain and brutal. I do not make this observation as one uninitiated. I write with the weight of a decade of contact with these people I call my wife and friends.

jasonlotito 5y ago
> If not, please understand the position I'm coming from first. This doesn't change anything I said. Nor change the fact that your attitude is part of the problem. You are not unique in your point of view, but having that point of view doesn't mean your opinions are immediately valid. > I do not make this observation as one uninitiated. But you are. You are just an observer. You are not a SW yourself. > I write with the weight of a decade of contact with these people If that's true, then it should come as no surprise that there are more people in your position that disagree with your attitude. Otherwise, you don't know as much as you think you do. Edit: In fact, I'll say that by using your position to push the narrative that what your wife does is "ugly and violent," you are doing more to support the idea that people should treat those like her in an "ugly and violent" way. If you don't respect what she does, why should others?
- emptysongglass 5y ago
  I encourage you to read and listen to the stories of sex workers who are speaking their experience directly. Here's a former sex worker I really like on TikTok who is part of a wave of Gen Z'ers who are pushing back on the narrative that sex work is somehow liberating, good, or healthy. [1] [1] https://www.tiktok.com/@profitfromtrauma/video/6926281617094888710?sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=6969801357680117254&is_from_webapp=v1&is_copy_url=0 https://www.tiktok.com/@profitfromtrauma/video/6926281617094...
  - jasonlotito 5y ago
    > I encourage you to read and listen to the stories of sex workers who are speaking their experience directly. I could say the same thing to you. Because I have. I've been doing it for 20+ years now. But also because you literally admit to ignoring sex workers. You can't just pick and choose those that support your narrative. I'm done with this conversation. It's clear you aren't interesting in having a real discussion, and just pushing an agenda while at the same time insulting your friends, your wife, and ignoring the people you pretend to support.