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Great, I love the Chinese train network. But unfortunately, as of today, it is mainly coal-powered. And they are still building more and more coal-fired power p

Great, I love the Chinese train network. But unfortunately, as of today, it is mainly coal-powered. And they are still building more and more coal-fired power plants: https://e360.yale.edu/features/despite-pledges-to-cut-emissions-china-goes-on-a-coal-spree https://e360.yale.edu/features/despite-pledges-to-cut-emissi...

black_puppydog 5y ago
Well at least with a train system there's an option to green it up medium term. Better than investments into air infrastructure, no? Of course, I'm blissfully unaware of China's air travel developments. I'd be surprised though if they were not also huge. :D
- iso1210 5y ago
  United just ordered 100+ electric short haul planes.
- mimixco 5y ago
  China doesn't have the national road network like the US, so they built out a train system. As far as air travel, their Comac airplane has been accused of being a copy of an Airbus. It has about 300 orders from Chinese companies and no deliveries, as far as I can tell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919
  - DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
    China has also been rapidly expanding its national highway system. It's now larger than the US Interstate System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_China
    - mimixco 5y ago
      I was not aware that it had gotten so large. That's cool. But it still doesn't run end-to-end, like ours did from the beginning. That feature lead to the development of both sides of the country.
justicezyx 5y ago
I read and analyze a similar piece with same/similar title from foreign affairs. Maybe the exactly same article, but I did not verify. Disclaimer: I grew up in China and moved to US at age 24 in 2008. The article exhibits the typical myopic viewpoint of US news reporting. Take the coal powered energy, in the context of carbon emissions. China constantly broadcast her energy policy, there were never goal to reduce coal consumption, because there are cheap coals in China. In order to meet the carbon emissions targets, there are a plethora of measurements: * Higher efficiency coal power factory, where coal can be burned in cleaner generators and produces electricity for consumption. * Reduce the use of coal for non power use. Like my hometown in shanxi, now it's banned to burn coal for heat. People have to use something close to natural gas. * Close less efficient coal power factory. * Increase the use of renewable energy. The majority of the energy use increase are going to be provided by renewable and nuclear power. While coal consumption remain steady. * Reforestation and environmental projects to restore the natural carbon emissions capacity. Yet, these articles constantly slam on the non decreasing usage of coal, and pay no attention to the increased efficiency, and the shift of usage pattern from being coals directly to producing electricity. These are more like non technical but ideology charged reporter not understanding the delicacy of large scale social and economic problem, and refuses even to read some basic public policy documents. It's seeing a tree while ignoring the while forest.
- ChemSpider 5y ago
  > and pay no attention to the increased efficiency, Other parts of the world also have efficient, modern and new coal plants, and they are also getting closed (but of course, old ones first). Even the most efficient oal-fired power plant produces huge amounts of CO2. And in other parts of the world, this is also causing social disruptions, e. g. for the people working in oal-fired power plants. None of these challenges are unique to China. But as the worlds #1 or #2 economic power, China has a huge responsibility to do the right thing.
  - justicezyx 5y ago
    No, my point was that for China, they believe the right thing to do is what they are planning to do, not closing all the coal plants right now. And the reporting we see here, gloss over the reasonings and mind bending on the idea that coal usage are not reducing. China cannot afford reducing coal usage because there are no easy way to provide the needed power. And there are other means to offset the carbon emissions, and it's been worked on. Of course, different nations would have different measurements to meet the carbon neutral goal, and precisely that what China are pursuing, I.e., a method that fits China's situation.

black_puppydog 5y ago

Well at least with a train system there's an option to green it up medium term. Better than investments into air infrastructure, no? Of course, I'm blissfully unaware of China's air travel developments. I'd be surprised though if they were not also huge. :D

iso1210 5y ago
United just ordered 100+ electric short haul planes.
mimixco 5y ago
China doesn't have the national road network like the US, so they built out a train system. As far as air travel, their Comac airplane has been accused of being a copy of an Airbus. It has about 300 orders from Chinese companies and no deliveries, as far as I can tell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_C919
- DiogenesKynikos 5y ago
  China has also been rapidly expanding its national highway system. It's now larger than the US Interstate System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expressways_of_China
  - mimixco 5y ago
    I was not aware that it had gotten so large. That's cool. But it still doesn't run end-to-end, like ours did from the beginning. That feature lead to the development of both sides of the country.

justicezyx 5y ago

I read and analyze a similar piece with same/similar title from foreign affairs. Maybe the exactly same article, but I did not verify. Disclaimer: I grew up in China and moved to US at age 24 in 2008. The article exhibits the typical myopic viewpoint of US news reporting. Take the coal powered energy, in the context of carbon emissions. China constantly broadcast her energy policy, there were never goal to reduce coal consumption, because there are cheap coals in China. In order to meet the carbon emissions targets, there are a plethora of measurements: * Higher efficiency coal power factory, where coal can be burned in cleaner generators and produces electricity for consumption. * Reduce the use of coal for non power use. Like my hometown in shanxi, now it's banned to burn coal for heat. People have to use something close to natural gas. * Close less efficient coal power factory. * Increase the use of renewable energy. The majority of the energy use increase are going to be provided by renewable and nuclear power. While coal consumption remain steady. * Reforestation and environmental projects to restore the natural carbon emissions capacity. Yet, these articles constantly slam on the non decreasing usage of coal, and pay no attention to the increased efficiency, and the shift of usage pattern from being coals directly to producing electricity. These are more like non technical but ideology charged reporter not understanding the delicacy of large scale social and economic problem, and refuses even to read some basic public policy documents. It's seeing a tree while ignoring the while forest.

ChemSpider 5y ago
> and pay no attention to the increased efficiency, Other parts of the world also have efficient, modern and new coal plants, and they are also getting closed (but of course, old ones first). Even the most efficient oal-fired power plant produces huge amounts of CO2. And in other parts of the world, this is also causing social disruptions, e. g. for the people working in oal-fired power plants. None of these challenges are unique to China. But as the worlds #1 or #2 economic power, China has a huge responsibility to do the right thing.
- justicezyx 5y ago
  No, my point was that for China, they believe the right thing to do is what they are planning to do, not closing all the coal plants right now. And the reporting we see here, gloss over the reasonings and mind bending on the idea that coal usage are not reducing. China cannot afford reducing coal usage because there are no easy way to provide the needed power. And there are other means to offset the carbon emissions, and it's been worked on. Of course, different nations would have different measurements to meet the carbon neutral goal, and precisely that what China are pursuing, I.e., a method that fits China's situation.