4 ms·

Programming by Poking: Why MIT Stopped Teaching SICP (2016)

61 points by boramalper 5y ago

dang 5y ago
Past related threads: Why MIT uses Python instead of Scheme for its undergraduate CS program (2009) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18782101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18782101 - Dec 2018 (136 comments) One Reason That MIT Should Reinstate Scheme and 6.001 (2009) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18386223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18386223 - Nov 2018 (38 comments) Why MIT Switched from Scheme to Python (2009) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14167453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14167453 - April 2017 (97 comments) Programming by poking: why MIT stopped teaching SICP - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13105896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13105896 - Dec 2016 (9 comments) Programming by poking: why MIT stopped teaching SICP - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11628080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11628080 - May 2016 (232 comments) SICP is being taught again at MIT - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3482117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3482117 - Jan 2012 (37 comments) SICP is still used at MIT at graduate level. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3235589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3235589 - Nov 2011 (3 comments) Why MIT now uses python instead of scheme for its undergraduate CS program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=842333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=842333 - Sept 2009 (38 comments) Chiming in on the MIT Scheme to Python Switch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=622261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=622261 - May 2009 (7 comments) Why Did M.I.T. Switch from Scheme to Python? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=602307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=602307 - May 2009 (65 comments) Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=530605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=530605 - March 2009 (128 comments) MIT replacing Scheme with Python for Intro CS class - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=75401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=75401 - Nov 2007 (16 comments)
eyelovewe 5y ago
To me, this reads as an admission that software complexity leads to lower determinacy and lower systemic coherence. That bottom up design is dead, at least with regards to the industry they are preparing people for. I still think that SICP teaches sound thinking, as do compositional agglomerative syncretic approaches, even if you never do write any systems in forth.
- superduperycomb 5y ago
  Would you kindly briefly define “compositional agglomerative syncretic approaches”?
  - admash 5y ago
    I suspect he would define it as anything the untrained eye would find syntactically indistinguishable from Forth.
usefulcat 5y ago
Though I can’t quite put my finger on it, I also can’t help feeling like this explanation is a bit of a cop-out. I think if he had stopped at “we’re tired of teaching it” I would have found that more credible.
snicker7 5y ago
I just finished going through the SICP text (and most of the vid lectures). Upon reading it, I realized how much I and millions of others got robbed of a proper software engineering education.
randomcarbloke 5y ago
>"they felt that the SICP curriculum no longer prepared engineers for what engineering is like today." this is truer now, because people stopped reading or being taught with SICP.

61 points by boramalper 5y ago

dang 5y ago

Past related threads: Why MIT uses Python instead of Scheme for its undergraduate CS program (2009) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18782101 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18782101 - Dec 2018 (136 comments) One Reason That MIT Should Reinstate Scheme and 6.001 (2009) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18386223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18386223 - Nov 2018 (38 comments) Why MIT Switched from Scheme to Python (2009) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14167453 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14167453 - April 2017 (97 comments) Programming by poking: why MIT stopped teaching SICP - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13105896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13105896 - Dec 2016 (9 comments) Programming by poking: why MIT stopped teaching SICP - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11628080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11628080 - May 2016 (232 comments) SICP is being taught again at MIT - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3482117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3482117 - Jan 2012 (37 comments) SICP is still used at MIT at graduate level. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3235589 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3235589 - Nov 2011 (3 comments) Why MIT now uses python instead of scheme for its undergraduate CS program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=842333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=842333 - Sept 2009 (38 comments) Chiming in on the MIT Scheme to Python Switch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=622261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=622261 - May 2009 (7 comments) Why Did M.I.T. Switch from Scheme to Python? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=602307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=602307 - May 2009 (65 comments) Why MIT switched from Scheme to Python - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=530605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=530605 - March 2009 (128 comments) MIT replacing Scheme with Python for Intro CS class - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=75401 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=75401 - Nov 2007 (16 comments)

eyelovewe 5y ago

To me, this reads as an admission that software complexity leads to lower determinacy and lower systemic coherence. That bottom up design is dead, at least with regards to the industry they are preparing people for. I still think that SICP teaches sound thinking, as do compositional agglomerative syncretic approaches, even if you never do write any systems in forth.

superduperycomb 5y ago
Would you kindly briefly define “compositional agglomerative syncretic approaches”?
- admash 5y ago
  I suspect he would define it as anything the untrained eye would find syntactically indistinguishable from Forth.

usefulcat 5y ago

Though I can’t quite put my finger on it, I also can’t help feeling like this explanation is a bit of a cop-out. I think if he had stopped at “we’re tired of teaching it” I would have found that more credible.

snicker7 5y ago

I just finished going through the SICP text (and most of the vid lectures). Upon reading it, I realized how much I and millions of others got robbed of a proper software engineering education.

randomcarbloke 5y ago

>"they felt that the SICP curriculum no longer prepared engineers for what engineering is like today." this is truer now, because people stopped reading or being taught with SICP.