3 ms·

I understand that's how you feel, that without meditation and mindfulness you do not feel fully awake and 'conscious', though I suspect what you mean by 'consci

by Nursie 5y ago

I understand that's how you feel, that without meditation and mindfulness you do not feel fully awake and 'conscious', though I suspect what you mean by 'conscious' is different to what I might mean. I am glad you've found something that increases your enjoyment and appreciation of your life. I enjoy and appreciate mine, too. And hopefully we all learn pretty quickly that drinking too much can utterly ruin the next day....

qwerty456127 5y ago
This could be a nice end of the conversation as it was obviously meant to be but now I feel very curious about this: > I suspect what you mean by 'conscious' is different to what I might mean What do you mean? I would sincerely appreciate if you could dedicate some more time and try to explain.
- Nursie 5y ago
  Well, to me, the semantic definition of being conscious is simply to be awake, rather than asleep, insensible, anaesthetised, blacked out or whatever else. You seem to have a slightly different definition, I think, based on these remarks - "It is important to maintain conscious" "I've heard about Buddhists who train to always stay consciousness while living, talking and whatever," "I enjoy more value out of my life if I am more awake, conscious for longer and more frequent periods of time" I maintain consciousness whenever I am awake, because that's what being awake is, as far as I understand the word. The second quote, well being conscious is a pre-requisite for me talking (unless you count mumbling in my sleep, which does happen). And I don't think in that last quote you're talking about deliberate sleep deprivation so you can be awake longer (you could be?). It just made me think you were not using the word in the same sense I would. Do you think it's possible to be awake (i.e. not asleep) without necessarily being conscious? If so that would just confirm we have different definitions of that word. I could be wrong. (And I don't especially want to direct this conversation towards "what really is consciousness?" because it's a very slippery eel of a topic)
  - qwerty456127 5y ago
    I see. Thank you for the explanation. Indeed, we mean slightly different things. Have you ever (I would be surprised if you never ever had, but perhaps this doesn't happen to you often) went outdoors and then suddenly started wondering if you have turnt off the stove/iron, locked the door and taken the key with you? This happens to me every day because I always exit "unconsciously" in the meaning of the word I intended. When we go together with my wife she would ask me "have you taken the key"? I respond "yes" automatically (here I am speaking but "unconsciously") because such is the habit and I am "daydreaming" ("unconscious" as I label it) at the moment, we lock the door (it locks itself when closed) and then I always feel a boost of adrenaline (in such a degree I have even started taking beta-blockers as this caused heart ache) and think "have I? bloody hell! I probably haven't, we will have to call a locksmith, wait an hour and pay $100 to get back in" (and occasionally this turns out to be the case). Then I become "conscious" and tell myself it's not a big deal, whatever, check the pockets calmly (usually finding the key) and go on. The very phenomenon of such strong anxiety at the moment itself takes place because I still am not really "conscious" at it (if I were I wold understand it's not a big deal). This wouldn't occur if I were leaving the home "consciously". I could put a huge red "wake up" sign on the inside of my door but I know I will get used to it soon and it will stop working. The "doorway effect" has even gotten some scientific recognition recently[1]. Another example of unconscious speaking is when I am reading or writing something and somebody talks to me - I get less than 30% of what they say and "consciously" answer "yes" to everything then have no idea what did I agree with (and often can't even remember I said anything). And this is not intentional behaviour - they started when I was reading and I was not "conscious" enough to make a "conscious decision" (I tend to believe this phrase is pretty standard English) and switching to just listening them. This is what I meant. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-walking-through-doorway-makes-you-forget/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-walking-throu...
    - Nursie 5y ago
      The doorway effect is fascinating. I don't tend to experience worry on leaving the house as you describe (I know many do), but I certainly walk into rooms and forget why I'm there. I would talk about the issues you raise more as issues of attention, focus and division of attention, than whether one is conscious or not. Though semantically of course I agree that there is overlap between being conscious of something, of your surroundings, of other people, of your actions etc. When someone says just "being conscious" without a particular object, I think of something different. Language is a funny, imprecise and overloaded thing.

by Nursie 5y ago

qwerty456127 5y ago

This could be a nice end of the conversation as it was obviously meant to be but now I feel very curious about this: > I suspect what you mean by 'conscious' is different to what I might mean What do you mean? I would sincerely appreciate if you could dedicate some more time and try to explain.

Nursie 5y ago
Well, to me, the semantic definition of being conscious is simply to be awake, rather than asleep, insensible, anaesthetised, blacked out or whatever else. You seem to have a slightly different definition, I think, based on these remarks - "It is important to maintain conscious" "I've heard about Buddhists who train to always stay consciousness while living, talking and whatever," "I enjoy more value out of my life if I am more awake, conscious for longer and more frequent periods of time" I maintain consciousness whenever I am awake, because that's what being awake is, as far as I understand the word. The second quote, well being conscious is a pre-requisite for me talking (unless you count mumbling in my sleep, which does happen). And I don't think in that last quote you're talking about deliberate sleep deprivation so you can be awake longer (you could be?). It just made me think you were not using the word in the same sense I would. Do you think it's possible to be awake (i.e. not asleep) without necessarily being conscious? If so that would just confirm we have different definitions of that word. I could be wrong. (And I don't especially want to direct this conversation towards "what really is consciousness?" because it's a very slippery eel of a topic)
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  I see. Thank you for the explanation. Indeed, we mean slightly different things. Have you ever (I would be surprised if you never ever had, but perhaps this doesn't happen to you often) went outdoors and then suddenly started wondering if you have turnt off the stove/iron, locked the door and taken the key with you? This happens to me every day because I always exit "unconsciously" in the meaning of the word I intended. When we go together with my wife she would ask me "have you taken the key"? I respond "yes" automatically (here I am speaking but "unconsciously") because such is the habit and I am "daydreaming" ("unconscious" as I label it) at the moment, we lock the door (it locks itself when closed) and then I always feel a boost of adrenaline (in such a degree I have even started taking beta-blockers as this caused heart ache) and think "have I? bloody hell! I probably haven't, we will have to call a locksmith, wait an hour and pay $100 to get back in" (and occasionally this turns out to be the case). Then I become "conscious" and tell myself it's not a big deal, whatever, check the pockets calmly (usually finding the key) and go on. The very phenomenon of such strong anxiety at the moment itself takes place because I still am not really "conscious" at it (if I were I wold understand it's not a big deal). This wouldn't occur if I were leaving the home "consciously". I could put a huge red "wake up" sign on the inside of my door but I know I will get used to it soon and it will stop working. The "doorway effect" has even gotten some scientific recognition recently[1]. Another example of unconscious speaking is when I am reading or writing something and somebody talks to me - I get less than 30% of what they say and "consciously" answer "yes" to everything then have no idea what did I agree with (and often can't even remember I said anything). And this is not intentional behaviour - they started when I was reading and I was not "conscious" enough to make a "conscious decision" (I tend to believe this phrase is pretty standard English) and switching to just listening them. This is what I meant. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-walking-through-doorway-makes-you-forget/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-walking-throu...
  - Nursie 5y ago
    The doorway effect is fascinating. I don't tend to experience worry on leaving the house as you describe (I know many do), but I certainly walk into rooms and forget why I'm there. I would talk about the issues you raise more as issues of attention, focus and division of attention, than whether one is conscious or not. Though semantically of course I agree that there is overlap between being conscious of something, of your surroundings, of other people, of your actions etc. When someone says just "being conscious" without a particular object, I think of something different. Language is a funny, imprecise and overloaded thing.