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Yes! Was going to say the same. Kubernetes is far easier to learn than some random bespoke setup. After reading the article, it just sounds like they reinvented

Yes! Was going to say the same. Kubernetes is far easier to learn than some random bespoke setup. After reading the article, it just sounds like they reinvented the wheel but made it AWS specific for some reason. Was brought on as a consultant years ago and found their bespoke setup of random ec2 instances and lambda scripts to be far more difficult to understand than just spinning up a managed Kubernetes cluster and having a generic interface to deploy the application, as well as monitoring, logging, metrics, etc.

cortesoft 5y ago
> Kubernetes is far easier to learn than some random bespoke setup This, to me, is the biggest advantage of kubernetes. Yes, you can do all the things yourself, with your own custom solution that does everything you need to do just as well as kubernetes. What kubernetes gives you is a shared way of doing things. By using a common method, you can easily integrate different services together, as well as onboard new hires easily. Using something ubiquitous like kubernetes helps both your code onboarding and your people onboarding.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Also not having to debug EC2 lifecycle issues is really nice. And you don't have to deal with all of the garbage of setting up ec2 instances (configuring SSH, process management, configuration management, log exfiltration, monitoring, infra as code, nginx, albs, etc).
- zinclozenge 5y ago
  Well, that and also a "nice" programmatic interface.
ldiracdelta 5y ago
In addition to ease, why would I, as a s/w engr, want to invest in learning your weird stack instead of learning or using an equivalent tech stack that is actually marketable? Learning a technology can be a huge investment. Why would I want to invest in a technology with not much future and not much ability to translate into another position should this gig go south.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Note that Kubernetes skills are _hot_ right now. 6 months of Kubernetes experience is easily an extra $20k in salary.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- cat199 5y ago
  because you then know how to apply technology instead of a technology ?
  - ldiracdelta 5y ago
    So, I should be OK to use my most precious asset -- time -- on an investment in a dead-end technology, because that investment could possibly, maybe translate (in some reduced way) to me being able to use a different technology later on that is not a dead-end technology? How about I just invest directly in technologies that have a payback and not try to cram the entirety of all software engineering systems into my brain. I already have an unending amount of things and systems to learn in s/w, why shouldn't I prioritize the learning process towards investments that have the best paybacks.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Well, they say they're using CloudFormation and Terraform. Those are also fairly standard, popular tools, aren't they?
0xbadcafebee 5y ago
Kubernetes is literally more complicated than any other similar system in existence. It is so by definition, because it builds in more complexity than any other system has. But it also lacks the features you often need, so you have to learn even more to be able to get it to do what you want. You could write several books on running K8s in production.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  My experiences with k8s have led me to never propose k8s in a new project. The k8s instances I have seen were bureaucratic and technical nightmares of unnecessary complexity. It doesn't provide a common ground for deployments because everyone will use and configure it differently.
  - marcinzm 5y ago
    >It doesn't provide a common ground for deployments because everyone will use and configure it differently. Helm charts are used by 99% of the open source projects I've seen that run on top of Kubernetes. They are all written in a similar style so transferring settings between them is fairly easy. Helm will even create a barebones chart for you automatically in the common style.
    - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
      A helm chart is not a complete deployment system, it's just a wrapper around kubectl. Neither provides everything you need to completely manage deploys.
- xtracto 5y ago
  I was doing research to move set up some new system into scalable cloud infrastructure. My first option was K8s (EKS) and second was plain ECS+Fargate. Ramping up in K8s was so convoluted and painful that I decided to follow up with ECS. That has been quite straightforward.
- zaat 5y ago
  But you can't write books on running Linux in production, or Apache, or Windows, or Oracle, or... since the book shelves are (not literally but metaphorically) too crowded for yet another one on the subject
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
pilotpilot 5y ago
What do you mean? You used to work with Ably?

cortesoft 5y ago

> Kubernetes is far easier to learn than some random bespoke setup This, to me, is the biggest advantage of kubernetes. Yes, you can do all the things yourself, with your own custom solution that does everything you need to do just as well as kubernetes. What kubernetes gives you is a shared way of doing things. By using a common method, you can easily integrate different services together, as well as onboard new hires easily. Using something ubiquitous like kubernetes helps both your code onboarding and your people onboarding.

throwaway894345 5y ago
Also not having to debug EC2 lifecycle issues is really nice. And you don't have to deal with all of the garbage of setting up ec2 instances (configuring SSH, process management, configuration management, log exfiltration, monitoring, infra as code, nginx, albs, etc).
zinclozenge 5y ago
Well, that and also a "nice" programmatic interface.

ldiracdelta 5y ago

In addition to ease, why would I, as a s/w engr, want to invest in learning your weird stack instead of learning or using an equivalent tech stack that is actually marketable? Learning a technology can be a huge investment. Why would I want to invest in a technology with not much future and not much ability to translate into another position should this gig go south.

throwaway894345 5y ago
Note that Kubernetes skills are _hot_ right now. 6 months of Kubernetes experience is easily an extra $20k in salary.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
cat199 5y ago
because you then know how to apply technology instead of a technology ?
- ldiracdelta 5y ago
  So, I should be OK to use my most precious asset -- time -- on an investment in a dead-end technology, because that investment could possibly, maybe translate (in some reduced way) to me being able to use a different technology later on that is not a dead-end technology? How about I just invest directly in technologies that have a payback and not try to cram the entirety of all software engineering systems into my brain. I already have an unending amount of things and systems to learn in s/w, why shouldn't I prioritize the learning process towards investments that have the best paybacks.
emodendroket 5y ago
Well, they say they're using CloudFormation and Terraform. Those are also fairly standard, popular tools, aren't they?

0xbadcafebee 5y ago

Kubernetes is literally more complicated than any other similar system in existence. It is so by definition, because it builds in more complexity than any other system has. But it also lacks the features you often need, so you have to learn even more to be able to get it to do what you want. You could write several books on running K8s in production.

nitrogen 5y ago
My experiences with k8s have led me to never propose k8s in a new project. The k8s instances I have seen were bureaucratic and technical nightmares of unnecessary complexity. It doesn't provide a common ground for deployments because everyone will use and configure it differently.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  >It doesn't provide a common ground for deployments because everyone will use and configure it differently. Helm charts are used by 99% of the open source projects I've seen that run on top of Kubernetes. They are all written in a similar style so transferring settings between them is fairly easy. Helm will even create a barebones chart for you automatically in the common style.
  - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
    A helm chart is not a complete deployment system, it's just a wrapper around kubectl. Neither provides everything you need to completely manage deploys.
xtracto 5y ago
I was doing research to move set up some new system into scalable cloud infrastructure. My first option was K8s (EKS) and second was plain ECS+Fargate. Ramping up in K8s was so convoluted and painful that I decided to follow up with ECS. That has been quite straightforward.
zaat 5y ago
But you can't write books on running Linux in production, or Apache, or Windows, or Oracle, or... since the book shelves are (not literally but metaphorically) too crowded for yet another one on the subject

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

pilotpilot 5y ago

What do you mean? You used to work with Ably?