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The environmental perspective is the most important. The truth is the oceans are dying and overfishing has created colossal dead zones. The best option that sh

The environmental perspective is the most important. The truth is the oceans are dying and overfishing has created colossal dead zones. The best option that should be on this list is to not eat any fish at all.

MatthewPhillips 15y ago
Preserving fish species is more important than not poisoning yourself?
elmomalmo 15y ago
Dead zones are not created by overfishing but by intensive farming techniques on land and what's subsequently washed into the sea via rivers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)
Duff 15y ago
Unfortunately, international legal frameworks with respect to the oceans are not keeping pace with technology. Anything that reduces consumer demand is a good thing, but American demand in the big picture is a small piece of pie. The Japanese will not be satisfied until every last aquatic creature is extracted from the Mediterranean. America's biggest contribution to eradicating sea life are the destructive land use policies in the Mississippi watershed. We provide ridiculous incentives via direct payment to grow corn with massive quantities of fertilizer, build massive levee systems to reclaim floodplain land and cut canals in the Mississippi delta. All of these things together have turned the Gulf of Mexico into an aquatic wasteland.
davidhollander 15y ago
> The best option that should be on this list is to not eat any fish at all. Your logic fails for the following reasons: - not all fish are from the ocean - not all species of fish are in fact overfished. There is no Sardine crisis. - Fish consumption is linked to increased IQ including in babies and children - Piscetarians have lower rates of heart disease than both vegans and occasional meat eaters - Promoting abstinence over harm reduction is generally a very silly and inefficient way to do things
- yequalsx 15y ago
  The person you responded to stated a belief that environmental considerations were the most important. The website that started these conversations has listed only ocean fish. Three of the five points you listed have nothing to do with the environment. Your statement about jeremymims logic is out of place. There are negative environmental impacts from ocean fish farms. I don't enough about non-ocean fish farms to comment on the environmental impacts of non-ocean fish farms though.
  - davidhollander 15y ago
    > The website that started these conversations has listed only ocean fish http://whichfish.org/detail/catfish_us_farmed.html http://whichfish.org/detail/catfish_us_farmed.html http://whichfish.org/detail/crayfish_us.html http://whichfish.org/detail/crayfish_us.html http://whichfish.org/detail/trout_rainbow_trout.html http://whichfish.org/detail/trout_rainbow_trout.html http://whichfish.org/detail/tilapia_organic_or_closed_production.html http://whichfish.org/detail/tilapia_organic_or_closed_produc...
- jeremymims 15y ago
  Just for the record, fish consumption is linked to increased IQ in children because of the presence of Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Did you know though that both Flaxseed and Walnuts are both better, cheaper, and less environmentally damaging sources of Omega 3s than fish? Soybeans and Tofu are also pretty good sources. I'm cool with people consuming less, not merely abstaining from eating fish. But for those out there who are willing to (and there are many such people in the tech community), it really is the best option.
  - davidhollander 15y ago
    > increased IQ in children because of the presence of Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Did you know though that both Flaxseed and Walnuts are both better The fatty acid in both Flaxseed and Walnuts you are referring to is alpha Linolic acid (ALA), whereas fish contains Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Out of these, only DHA is found in the brain. If DHA is not present in the diet, ALA can be converted into it, but only at an extremely low rate of efficiency [1] The only reliable vegan source of DHA I am aware of is certain types of algae. Additionally, by consuming extremely large quantities of nuts you will typically be overloading your copper to zinc ratio. [1] http://dx.doi.org/10.1186%2F1476-511X-8-33 http://dx.doi.org/10.1186%2F1476-511X-8-33 "Are all n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids created equal?"
sliverstorm 15y ago
Even if the entire United States ceased eating fish, the problem would continue and get worse. Other countries would step in and eat the fish we would have been eating. In other words, the way to solve the problem is not by not eating fish (though that is perfectly fine at an individual level) but to establish sustainability around the globe.
sliverstorm 15y ago
The Hawaii-based longline fishery for swordfish was closed in 2000 over concerns of excessive sea turtle by-catch. One consequence of the closure was that 70 Hawaii-based vessels were replaced by 1,500-1,700 longline vessels from various Asian nations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longline_fishing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longline_fishing The problem does not simply go away because Americans stop eating fish.

MatthewPhillips 15y ago

Preserving fish species is more important than not poisoning yourself?

elmomalmo 15y ago

Dead zones are not created by overfishing but by intensive farming techniques on land and what's subsequently washed into the sea via rivers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)

Duff 15y ago

Unfortunately, international legal frameworks with respect to the oceans are not keeping pace with technology. Anything that reduces consumer demand is a good thing, but American demand in the big picture is a small piece of pie. The Japanese will not be satisfied until every last aquatic creature is extracted from the Mediterranean. America's biggest contribution to eradicating sea life are the destructive land use policies in the Mississippi watershed. We provide ridiculous incentives via direct payment to grow corn with massive quantities of fertilizer, build massive levee systems to reclaim floodplain land and cut canals in the Mississippi delta. All of these things together have turned the Gulf of Mexico into an aquatic wasteland.

davidhollander 15y ago

> The best option that should be on this list is to not eat any fish at all. Your logic fails for the following reasons: - not all fish are from the ocean - not all species of fish are in fact overfished. There is no Sardine crisis. - Fish consumption is linked to increased IQ including in babies and children - Piscetarians have lower rates of heart disease than both vegans and occasional meat eaters - Promoting abstinence over harm reduction is generally a very silly and inefficient way to do things

yequalsx 15y ago
The person you responded to stated a belief that environmental considerations were the most important. The website that started these conversations has listed only ocean fish. Three of the five points you listed have nothing to do with the environment. Your statement about jeremymims logic is out of place. There are negative environmental impacts from ocean fish farms. I don't enough about non-ocean fish farms to comment on the environmental impacts of non-ocean fish farms though.
- davidhollander 15y ago
  > The website that started these conversations has listed only ocean fish http://whichfish.org/detail/catfish_us_farmed.html http://whichfish.org/detail/catfish_us_farmed.html http://whichfish.org/detail/crayfish_us.html http://whichfish.org/detail/crayfish_us.html http://whichfish.org/detail/trout_rainbow_trout.html http://whichfish.org/detail/trout_rainbow_trout.html http://whichfish.org/detail/tilapia_organic_or_closed_production.html http://whichfish.org/detail/tilapia_organic_or_closed_produc...
jeremymims 15y ago
Just for the record, fish consumption is linked to increased IQ in children because of the presence of Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Did you know though that both Flaxseed and Walnuts are both better, cheaper, and less environmentally damaging sources of Omega 3s than fish? Soybeans and Tofu are also pretty good sources. I'm cool with people consuming less, not merely abstaining from eating fish. But for those out there who are willing to (and there are many such people in the tech community), it really is the best option.
- davidhollander 15y ago
  > increased IQ in children because of the presence of Omega-3 Fatty Acids. Did you know though that both Flaxseed and Walnuts are both better The fatty acid in both Flaxseed and Walnuts you are referring to is alpha Linolic acid (ALA), whereas fish contains Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Out of these, only DHA is found in the brain. If DHA is not present in the diet, ALA can be converted into it, but only at an extremely low rate of efficiency [1] The only reliable vegan source of DHA I am aware of is certain types of algae. Additionally, by consuming extremely large quantities of nuts you will typically be overloading your copper to zinc ratio. [1] http://dx.doi.org/10.1186%2F1476-511X-8-33 http://dx.doi.org/10.1186%2F1476-511X-8-33 "Are all n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids created equal?"

sliverstorm 15y ago

Even if the entire United States ceased eating fish, the problem would continue and get worse. Other countries would step in and eat the fish we would have been eating. In other words, the way to solve the problem is not by not eating fish (though that is perfectly fine at an individual level) but to establish sustainability around the globe.

sliverstorm 15y ago

The Hawaii-based longline fishery for swordfish was closed in 2000 over concerns of excessive sea turtle by-catch. One consequence of the closure was that 70 Hawaii-based vessels were replaced by 1,500-1,700 longline vessels from various Asian nations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longline_fishing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longline_fishing The problem does not simply go away because Americans stop eating fish.