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Why? Now I'm here and enjoy the moment. Now I'm not and the body just lives on its own doing it's job like a robot could when I could be dead and not mindful o

Why? Now I'm here and enjoy the moment. Now I'm not and the body just lives on its own doing it's job like a robot could when I could be dead and not mindful of anything. A minute is gone. To me this seems rather simple. Perhaps my verbal abilities are not enough to explain. Once, as a schoolboy, I've heard about Buddhists who train to always stay consciousness while living, talking and whatever, I considered this amazing and have then progresses from 80% daydreaming an 19% struggling life to some way more (although still very far from 100%) present, more mine and more happy.

Nursie 5y ago
Well, you appear to be telling others that their lives and experiences have no value without mindfulness. You also seem to be telling us that the only way you feel your life experience has any value is through this thing also, that your own experience is hollow or even non-existent without it. That seems somewhat extreme. I would make the same comment to (for instance) someone telling us that they live every moment of their lives through Jesus, and that without his love life can have no meaning.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  "Being with Jesus" is a rather vague concept which. Different people may understand it differently. Often it even is primitivized to just attributing yourself to a church. What I am telling, however, is a simple difference between automatic functioning in semi-hypnotic state and living in awake state. Let's take it to the extreme: imagine you were given a choice to spend the rest of your life in deep sleep (the kind you can't remember dreams after) and wake up just minutes before die. Would you agree? Would you consider such life making much sense or value to you? I wouldn't. To me it seems almost the same as dying straight away. In fact Christianity includes the doctrine of Nepsis which is very much related to this (although many people believe it only means avoiding alcohol).
  - Nursie 5y ago
    > "Being with Jesus" is a rather vague concept which. Different people may understand it differently. Which is why I said if someone tells me that "they live every moment of their lives through Jesus, and that without his love life can have no meaning." > What I am telling, however, is a simple difference between automatic functioning in semi-hypnotic state and living in awake state. Do you not see how judgemental that appears, that unless people join in with your special thing they are effectively automata, asleep, may as well be dead? I'm glad you have found benefit in your path through life, but I'm not sure one should assume that yours is the only valuable way to live, or indeed the only way to actually 'live'.
    - qwerty456127 5y ago
      I believe I get your point now, hopefully you will understand mine. Looking from the outside, from the practical (economical) point of view the value/meaning of a unit does not depend on whether it is conscious or not - it just does the same job. Somebody probably can replace me with a future version of GPT3 once and not even my mom will notice (as she lives in a different country and my job also is writing e-mails). Looking from the outside, from the moral, empathetic and spiritual points of view (although devotees of some cults will argue), and from my own actual view all lives are absolutely equally valuable and meaningful. I really feel and see this way, not because this is a moral or religious law. I don't judge anybody based on anything, let alone on how mindful their are. I even go further and believe no criminal is actually a wicked person - they just feel and act the ways they do because they are not mindful about how bad (and conditioned) their actions are and how they could avoid them. In many cases this even is a scientific fact. Looking from the inside, however, I indeed believe I enjoy more value out of my life if I am more awake, conscious for longer and more frequent periods of time. Simply saying it's not worth to pay for ticket and go to a cinema if you are deadly tired and will most probably fall asleep there anyway. One night on a vacation I got terribly drunk. The next morning we went to a museum and that was a waste because I could barely stand on my feet fighting drowsiness - there could be no paintings on the walls and I would not notice. The day passed as if there were no such day, I've got nothing but the next number on the calendar. Do you understand what I mean? It absolutely isn't my goal to argue the hell out of us or convince you people with ADHD (like myself) are worthless, I only keep writing to make sure what I wrote is understood correctly (not necessarily agreed with).
8note 5y ago
I don't think that's sufficient. Being mindful and doing nothing is still doing nothing. You should be doing measurable work, otherwise your minute is gone, and it's just as gone whether you're mindful during that time or not. You still changed nothing, and you can't backtrack to tell if you were doing nothing or being mindful while doing nothing.
- qwerty456127 5y ago
  This is a matter of philosophy, your "world view". AFAIK Buddhists don't believe you have to change anything or even pursue a happy state. As for me at this phase of my development being mindfully happy (and not hypnotized happy like under narcotics or in a pleasant dream) makes the most sense (and happiness often comes when you do anything mindfully - AFAIK this is called "sukha"). And in fact this is not useless even from a practical (economical) point of view - this is genuine recreation letting you take the most out of your resting (and even doing chores) which makes you more stable and efficient after that.

Nursie 5y ago

Well, you appear to be telling others that their lives and experiences have no value without mindfulness. You also seem to be telling us that the only way you feel your life experience has any value is through this thing also, that your own experience is hollow or even non-existent without it. That seems somewhat extreme. I would make the same comment to (for instance) someone telling us that they live every moment of their lives through Jesus, and that without his love life can have no meaning.

qwerty456127 5y ago
"Being with Jesus" is a rather vague concept which. Different people may understand it differently. Often it even is primitivized to just attributing yourself to a church. What I am telling, however, is a simple difference between automatic functioning in semi-hypnotic state and living in awake state. Let's take it to the extreme: imagine you were given a choice to spend the rest of your life in deep sleep (the kind you can't remember dreams after) and wake up just minutes before die. Would you agree? Would you consider such life making much sense or value to you? I wouldn't. To me it seems almost the same as dying straight away. In fact Christianity includes the doctrine of Nepsis which is very much related to this (although many people believe it only means avoiding alcohol).
- Nursie 5y ago
  > "Being with Jesus" is a rather vague concept which. Different people may understand it differently. Which is why I said if someone tells me that "they live every moment of their lives through Jesus, and that without his love life can have no meaning." > What I am telling, however, is a simple difference between automatic functioning in semi-hypnotic state and living in awake state. Do you not see how judgemental that appears, that unless people join in with your special thing they are effectively automata, asleep, may as well be dead? I'm glad you have found benefit in your path through life, but I'm not sure one should assume that yours is the only valuable way to live, or indeed the only way to actually 'live'.
  - qwerty456127 5y ago
    I believe I get your point now, hopefully you will understand mine. Looking from the outside, from the practical (economical) point of view the value/meaning of a unit does not depend on whether it is conscious or not - it just does the same job. Somebody probably can replace me with a future version of GPT3 once and not even my mom will notice (as she lives in a different country and my job also is writing e-mails). Looking from the outside, from the moral, empathetic and spiritual points of view (although devotees of some cults will argue), and from my own actual view all lives are absolutely equally valuable and meaningful. I really feel and see this way, not because this is a moral or religious law. I don't judge anybody based on anything, let alone on how mindful their are. I even go further and believe no criminal is actually a wicked person - they just feel and act the ways they do because they are not mindful about how bad (and conditioned) their actions are and how they could avoid them. In many cases this even is a scientific fact. Looking from the inside, however, I indeed believe I enjoy more value out of my life if I am more awake, conscious for longer and more frequent periods of time. Simply saying it's not worth to pay for ticket and go to a cinema if you are deadly tired and will most probably fall asleep there anyway. One night on a vacation I got terribly drunk. The next morning we went to a museum and that was a waste because I could barely stand on my feet fighting drowsiness - there could be no paintings on the walls and I would not notice. The day passed as if there were no such day, I've got nothing but the next number on the calendar. Do you understand what I mean? It absolutely isn't my goal to argue the hell out of us or convince you people with ADHD (like myself) are worthless, I only keep writing to make sure what I wrote is understood correctly (not necessarily agreed with).

8note 5y ago

I don't think that's sufficient. Being mindful and doing nothing is still doing nothing. You should be doing measurable work, otherwise your minute is gone, and it's just as gone whether you're mindful during that time or not. You still changed nothing, and you can't backtrack to tell if you were doing nothing or being mindful while doing nothing.

qwerty456127 5y ago
This is a matter of philosophy, your "world view". AFAIK Buddhists don't believe you have to change anything or even pursue a happy state. As for me at this phase of my development being mindfully happy (and not hypnotized happy like under narcotics or in a pleasant dream) makes the most sense (and happiness often comes when you do anything mindfully - AFAIK this is called "sukha"). And in fact this is not useless even from a practical (economical) point of view - this is genuine recreation letting you take the most out of your resting (and even doing chores) which makes you more stable and efficient after that.