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They should be expelled, but that's not possible. So the EU is indeed kinda helpless against member states gone rouge

pmontra 5y ago
I don't recommended this scenario but: the other states could join a new union and leave Hungary and possibly other states outside (the usual split into a good company and a bad one.) Lots of legal disputes but in international law the strongest party always makes the law and shrugs problems away. BTW, is it rouge (as in French for red) or rogue?
- Darmody 5y ago
  No, they can't make a new union, that's just stupid. It took decades to build the EU as it is now. Building something new isn't feasible. Just look at the Brexit shitshow and that was only a country leaving. And besides that, the EU has never been about controlling national governments. The common values thing it's something new they brought to the table because they want to expand their powers.
  - trasz 5y ago
    In case of Poland the only value being forced by the EU is not breaking Poland’s own constitution. Which is required for any kind of reliable business, which, in turn, is pretty central to fundamental purpose of the EU.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  It's Rogue. Common misspelling :)
- peteretep 5y ago
  Or they could just develop decent sanctions and enforce them. Hungary is a massive net recipient of EU funds, which seems a great starting lever, plus throw just the smallest amount of friction into their Schengen status, and you've got something pretty potent there.
mlang23 5y ago
Why, exactly? For not kissing the rainbow flag? Or for opposing illegal immigration? Those are the topics presented through media lately, and the argument is rather weak. In fact, I think many politically centered people dont actually sympathize with this "you are not hip enough, you have to leave"-mentality.
- pell 5y ago
  I am really not sure where this notion is coming from and I've seen it repeated in this thread multiple times now. The reason Orban's government is considered dangerous within the EU context has never been because of his stance on immigration or that he "doesn't kiss the rainbow flag". The problem is that his government has been attacking and dismantling democratic institutions such as academia, the media, NGOs and even the judiciary to some extend. The critique and this development started long before the refugee situation in 2015. This has really nothing to do with immigration or LGTBQ policy. A number of EU countries are not really champions of immigration or LGTBQ+ matters either (Slowakia, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece). This idea that the issue is about him or his government not being "hip" or "woke" enough is really odd to say the least.
- bjoli 5y ago
  The recent politicising the courts, and the political aftermath, is bad enough to warrant serious action from the EU. Orban has had undemocratic tendencies for a long time, and his blatant misuse of power has had all spectrums of the political field concerned since we'll before the 2015 EU migration crisis.
- 3np 5y ago
  While there's a fair amount of hypocrisy from other countries going on, the core issues are more about human rights and fascism than about hipness.
- Twixes 5y ago
  The government calling people subhuman simply because of what gender they prefer or feel like is far more twisted than some "not kissing the rainbow flag", and that's what's happening in Hungary or Poland receiving huge EU subsidies.
majgr 5y ago
Orban will vote easily against Poland just when he is guaranteed that he gets money from after-COVID fund. Maybe that is why EU are withholding Hungary spend plan for this fund.

I don't recommended this scenario but: the other states could join a new union and leave Hungary and possibly other states outside (the usual split into a good company and a bad one.) Lots of legal disputes but in international law the strongest party always makes the law and shrugs problems away. BTW, is it rouge (as in French for red) or rogue?

Darmody 5y ago
No, they can't make a new union, that's just stupid. It took decades to build the EU as it is now. Building something new isn't feasible. Just look at the Brexit shitshow and that was only a country leaving. And besides that, the EU has never been about controlling national governments. The common values thing it's something new they brought to the table because they want to expand their powers.
- trasz 5y ago
  In case of Poland the only value being forced by the EU is not breaking Poland’s own constitution. Which is required for any kind of reliable business, which, in turn, is pretty central to fundamental purpose of the EU.
scrollaway 5y ago
It's Rogue. Common misspelling :)
peteretep 5y ago
Or they could just develop decent sanctions and enforce them. Hungary is a massive net recipient of EU funds, which seems a great starting lever, plus throw just the smallest amount of friction into their Schengen status, and you've got something pretty potent there.

mlang23 5y ago

Why, exactly? For not kissing the rainbow flag? Or for opposing illegal immigration? Those are the topics presented through media lately, and the argument is rather weak. In fact, I think many politically centered people dont actually sympathize with this "you are not hip enough, you have to leave"-mentality.

pell 5y ago
I am really not sure where this notion is coming from and I've seen it repeated in this thread multiple times now. The reason Orban's government is considered dangerous within the EU context has never been because of his stance on immigration or that he "doesn't kiss the rainbow flag". The problem is that his government has been attacking and dismantling democratic institutions such as academia, the media, NGOs and even the judiciary to some extend. The critique and this development started long before the refugee situation in 2015. This has really nothing to do with immigration or LGTBQ policy. A number of EU countries are not really champions of immigration or LGTBQ+ matters either (Slowakia, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece). This idea that the issue is about him or his government not being "hip" or "woke" enough is really odd to say the least.
bjoli 5y ago
The recent politicising the courts, and the political aftermath, is bad enough to warrant serious action from the EU. Orban has had undemocratic tendencies for a long time, and his blatant misuse of power has had all spectrums of the political field concerned since we'll before the 2015 EU migration crisis.
3np 5y ago
While there's a fair amount of hypocrisy from other countries going on, the core issues are more about human rights and fascism than about hipness.
Twixes 5y ago
The government calling people subhuman simply because of what gender they prefer or feel like is far more twisted than some "not kissing the rainbow flag", and that's what's happening in Hungary or Poland receiving huge EU subsidies.

majgr 5y ago

Orban will vote easily against Poland just when he is guaranteed that he gets money from after-COVID fund. Maybe that is why EU are withholding Hungary spend plan for this fund.