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> People are tribal by nature. Maybe, but what "tribe" are you part of is completely fluid. Your tribe can be extremely inclusive or exclusive. > Grand unific

> People are tribal by nature. Maybe, but what "tribe" are you part of is completely fluid. Your tribe can be extremely inclusive or exclusive. > Grand unification of humanity is a good ideal, one we should work towards, but it's not something that will be possible within our lifetimes. And it is quite of inevitable as communication and travel becomes cheaper. > I don't want a European superstate because I disagree with most people that would live in it. My ideals would no longer be represented by my government. I think that's enough reason not to go for complete European unification. That is easily an argument against any form of government. No country would exist this way for good or bad. But they exists. As you said, bigger communities are a matter of time. What it would have been an impossible union 100 years ago it makes a lot of sense today.

rorroe53 5y ago
I would argue that a tribe at least need some kind of a common identity to remain strong, which by nature excludes it from people who lack that identity. An extremely inclusive tribe probably won't be a strong one with a sense of community. An example could be citizenship - we may not relate that much with someone just because he happens to live in the same country, compared to him being also our neighbour or colleague.
inglor_cz 5y ago
"Maybe, but what "tribe" are you part of is completely fluid" There is a lot of friction when changing tribes. Especially if it means changing your religion, language and culture. Few people can make that jump. I would not call this "completely fluid".
- goodpoint 5y ago
  On the contrary, studies clearly show that people are aligning themselves more and more with "tribes" that are based on a geographic area. Cheap travel and social networks made it possible. We are doing it right now on HN.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    This only really concerns highly educated professionals who can speak fluent English or other lingua franca. We on the HN are precisely such a self-selected subset. But European electorates as such (and we are talking about the EU here) do not, in the big picture, resemble this self-selected elite, and elected politicians must take that into account or risk growth of populist parties thriving on topics where the general population and the elite disagrees.

rorroe53 5y ago

I would argue that a tribe at least need some kind of a common identity to remain strong, which by nature excludes it from people who lack that identity. An extremely inclusive tribe probably won't be a strong one with a sense of community. An example could be citizenship - we may not relate that much with someone just because he happens to live in the same country, compared to him being also our neighbour or colleague.

inglor_cz 5y ago

"Maybe, but what "tribe" are you part of is completely fluid" There is a lot of friction when changing tribes. Especially if it means changing your religion, language and culture. Few people can make that jump. I would not call this "completely fluid".

goodpoint 5y ago
On the contrary, studies clearly show that people are aligning themselves more and more with "tribes" that are based on a geographic area. Cheap travel and social networks made it possible. We are doing it right now on HN.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  This only really concerns highly educated professionals who can speak fluent English or other lingua franca. We on the HN are precisely such a self-selected subset. But European electorates as such (and we are talking about the EU here) do not, in the big picture, resemble this self-selected elite, and elected politicians must take that into account or risk growth of populist parties thriving on topics where the general population and the elite disagrees.