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The article is hysterical clickbait nonsense and loaded with some very basic misunderstandings—seemingly including a fundamental confusion about what "beta" mea

The article is hysterical clickbait nonsense and loaded with some very basic misunderstandings—seemingly including a fundamental confusion about what "beta" means. Even the headline is flat out false, because the FSD beta software contains numerous "safeguards". Tesla has deployed this beta software to just 1000 customers who have demonstrated competence and level-headedness. The drivers are required to keep their hands on the wheel, the same as with the adaptive cruise / lane centering features available on many new cars.

czzr 5y ago
Yes, and Tesla also made sure that all the other road users around those 1000 beta testers opted in to being part of a development project. So all good.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
  I've lived in Paris for 15+ years, where many drivers are worst than FSD. I've watched hours of beta on Youtube. I never opted in, either. Many human drivers don't care about cyclists safety: they overtake at high speed, sometimes within centimeters, and occasionally force us to change course or hit us (and don't stop to help unless we don't get up). Yet, we don't make such drivers take an exam to check their skills/behavior because they passed one many years ago. I'd like to know how many accidents have happened with FSD before we slow down self-driving (instead of the opinion of consumer groups who've always sided against this technology). Otherwise, we should put dangerous drivers out of the road _now_. We rarely do, even after they hit pedestrians or cyclists while texting, so I prefer we focus on improving driver assist systems and focus on actual accidents (instead of Tesla brushing against bushes).
  - Gravityloss 5y ago
    You should have a camera and report those drivers to police.
    - rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
      I did! Multiple times, including one where I was hit from behind at high speed, injured, the driver stopped and left without helping. I file a claim ("contre X") at the police station and gave them the license plate (which they also heard when I called 911 right after it happened). This went nowhere, because the police was overwhelmed (that was during the gilets jaunes movement, and the police was busy going after people for destruction of public properties... priority, priority...)
- simondotau 5y ago
  You drive around every day on roads with learners, unroadworthy vehicles with bald tyres, and the occasional angry psycho driving a stolen car. You didn't opt into any of that either.
  - xvector 5y ago
    Not exactly a good argument for Tesla. All of those ought to be illegal too, perhaps with the exception of learners out of necessity.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      That wasn't an argument defending Tesla or an argument for what ought to be illegal. It was merely an argument against the silly notion that other drivers on the road didn't "opt in" to this. Of course they didn't "opt in"—because that's not how roads work. You share the road with a huge variety of different vehicles, being controlled in a huge variety of different ways. There's no "opt in" for any of it.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
>Tesla has deployed this beta software to just 1000 customers Source? As far as I know, thousands of Tesla employees are in the beta but only dozens of non-Employees have been enrolled to the program and had one on one conversations with Tesla employees.
SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago
If you watch the video, it doesn't appear to contain safeguards against driving into oncoming traffic and parked cars.
- simondotau 5y ago
  Neither does every other car on the market.
  - cromulen 5y ago
    For several years now, in the EU at least, all new cars need to have automatic emergency breaks. It's basically impossible to run into something, run someone over, etc. This kind of system reduces stress and gives at least me a certain peace of mind. In this regard Tesla self driving is a step backwards.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      You seem to be confused about what AEB is and what it does. It is generally effective at braking for static or rapidly slowing vehicles ahead. Most AEB systems are not effective "safeguards against driving into oncoming traffic and parked cars". These would involve a steering intervention, not a braking intervention.
      - mavhc 5y ago
        I assume AEB ignores a lot of stuff on purpose, otherwise it'd be braking due to things on the side of the road, and cars in the other lane on a curve that are heading straight towards you
        simondotau 5y ago
        Correct. Most AEB systems use a forward facing radar, which often receive spurious reflections from various street elements overhead bridges, overhead signage and manhole covers. As a result, most radar-based implementations will actively ignore completely stationary objects while driving at high speed.
ubercore 5y ago
I've seen plenty of videos already with users taking their hands completely off the wheel?
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
  FSD or Enhanced Autopilot?
  - ubercore 5y ago
    FSD videos -- hands off, car does something dumb and they grab the wheel.
- simondotau 5y ago
  In every car on the road, it is possible for the driver to take their hands completely off the wheel. The only variable between cars is how long until there are consequences. In most cars, the consequences would be somewhere between immediate and imminent. In the case of any vehicle with adaptive cruise control and lane centring features, this could be anywhere from many seconds to many minutes. In the case of a Tesla with Autopilot engaged, no hands on the steering wheel for 30 seconds will—if there haven't been any consequences prior—result in the car turning on the hazards, slow down and then stop.

czzr 5y ago

Yes, and Tesla also made sure that all the other road users around those 1000 beta testers opted in to being part of a development project. So all good.

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
I've lived in Paris for 15+ years, where many drivers are worst than FSD. I've watched hours of beta on Youtube. I never opted in, either. Many human drivers don't care about cyclists safety: they overtake at high speed, sometimes within centimeters, and occasionally force us to change course or hit us (and don't stop to help unless we don't get up). Yet, we don't make such drivers take an exam to check their skills/behavior because they passed one many years ago. I'd like to know how many accidents have happened with FSD before we slow down self-driving (instead of the opinion of consumer groups who've always sided against this technology). Otherwise, we should put dangerous drivers out of the road _now_. We rarely do, even after they hit pedestrians or cyclists while texting, so I prefer we focus on improving driver assist systems and focus on actual accidents (instead of Tesla brushing against bushes).
- Gravityloss 5y ago
  You should have a camera and report those drivers to police.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
    I did! Multiple times, including one where I was hit from behind at high speed, injured, the driver stopped and left without helping. I file a claim ("contre X") at the police station and gave them the license plate (which they also heard when I called 911 right after it happened). This went nowhere, because the police was overwhelmed (that was during the gilets jaunes movement, and the police was busy going after people for destruction of public properties... priority, priority...)
simondotau 5y ago
You drive around every day on roads with learners, unroadworthy vehicles with bald tyres, and the occasional angry psycho driving a stolen car. You didn't opt into any of that either.
- xvector 5y ago
  Not exactly a good argument for Tesla. All of those ought to be illegal too, perhaps with the exception of learners out of necessity.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    That wasn't an argument defending Tesla or an argument for what ought to be illegal. It was merely an argument against the silly notion that other drivers on the road didn't "opt in" to this. Of course they didn't "opt in"—because that's not how roads work. You share the road with a huge variety of different vehicles, being controlled in a huge variety of different ways. There's no "opt in" for any of it.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago

>Tesla has deployed this beta software to just 1000 customers Source? As far as I know, thousands of Tesla employees are in the beta but only dozens of non-Employees have been enrolled to the program and had one on one conversations with Tesla employees.

SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago

If you watch the video, it doesn't appear to contain safeguards against driving into oncoming traffic and parked cars.

simondotau 5y ago
Neither does every other car on the market.
- cromulen 5y ago
  For several years now, in the EU at least, all new cars need to have automatic emergency breaks. It's basically impossible to run into something, run someone over, etc. This kind of system reduces stress and gives at least me a certain peace of mind. In this regard Tesla self driving is a step backwards.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    You seem to be confused about what AEB is and what it does. It is generally effective at braking for static or rapidly slowing vehicles ahead. Most AEB systems are not effective "safeguards against driving into oncoming traffic and parked cars". These would involve a steering intervention, not a braking intervention.
    - mavhc 5y ago
      I assume AEB ignores a lot of stuff on purpose, otherwise it'd be braking due to things on the side of the road, and cars in the other lane on a curve that are heading straight towards you
      - simondotau 5y ago
        Correct. Most AEB systems use a forward facing radar, which often receive spurious reflections from various street elements overhead bridges, overhead signage and manhole covers. As a result, most radar-based implementations will actively ignore completely stationary objects while driving at high speed.

ubercore 5y ago

I've seen plenty of videos already with users taking their hands completely off the wheel?

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
FSD or Enhanced Autopilot?
- ubercore 5y ago
  FSD videos -- hands off, car does something dumb and they grab the wheel.
simondotau 5y ago
In every car on the road, it is possible for the driver to take their hands completely off the wheel. The only variable between cars is how long until there are consequences. In most cars, the consequences would be somewhere between immediate and imminent. In the case of any vehicle with adaptive cruise control and lane centring features, this could be anywhere from many seconds to many minutes. In the case of a Tesla with Autopilot engaged, no hands on the steering wheel for 30 seconds will—if there haven't been any consequences prior—result in the car turning on the hazards, slow down and then stop.